<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Wow Ted, I have never exchanged an email with someone
so overtly Anti-American. However, in every argument there is a shred of
truth...and, surprisingly I agree with some of your tirade. Certainly, we have
different definitions of moral, and war brings about a new set of rules. Despite
being enamored of homosexual culture, our Nation has also turned into a bunch of
spineless sissies. <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> is one of
many cases and points. We should have used our superior military firepower,
destroyed the WMD's, and the regime and left the area--pure, plain, and simple.
(We should have taken the oil as well.) Bringing a democracy to a people who
don't desire (or who are incapable of) peace is impossible. We need to
forget about pleasing every other Nation and do what's in our best interests.
Forget about tolerance, equidistance, appeasement. Instead of the respected
Nation we were after WWII, were now the doormats of <st1:place w:st="on">N.
America</st1:place>. Our leaders are displaying the <A
href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19672">guilty
white syndrome</A> pervasive in this forum. Liberalism has found its way into a
so-called conservative administration. I even see a connection of homosexuality
and rampant feminism to the demasuclinization of <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">America</st1:country-region></st1:place>. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Many bad things happened in the past, things
perpetrated by our ancestors that we are not responsible. We cannot go on
apologizing indefinitely. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As I keep reading Teds email, I remain in disbelief.
I grew up a mere 90 miles from <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City> in a small mountainous town
a place
where people like Ted were non-existent. Now, Im sometimes ashamed to say Im
from <st1:State w:st="on">Idaho</st1:State>, especially when those to whom Im
speaking are using <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:place> as a reference
point.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Lets continue on this tangent initiated by Ted.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I believe that values of other cultures and
countries are <STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">inferior</SPAN></STRONG>
to the dominant <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region></st1:place> culture (of what is nearly our
past). Above all, I think we need to preserve what we have left of our Nation.
Close the borders; deport <EM><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">every</SPAN></EM>
<STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">illegal</SPAN></STRONG>
alien; stop affirmative racism (action); discontinue anything remotely described
as multicultural (we are <STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">one</SPAN></STRONG>
culture); name English as the national language and discontinue any preferential
treatment of minorities (under the guise of well-meaning social justice
programs); allow God back in the schools (not demand), courthouses, and public
events. We need to do these things, and others, to survive as a Nation.
<SPAN class=q>The <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region></st1:place> is nearing the end of the
average lifespan of a nation; tolerance, diversity, and sensitivity won't
help us survive.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=q><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=q><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I realize this exchange is moot, especially given the
make-up of the contributors. However, I couldnt sleep at night if I did
nothing
homosexuality is only one of the many problems dragging us down
Ill
keep up the fight</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=q><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN class=q><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ed</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=starbliss@gmail.com href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">Ted Moffett</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=metzler@moscow.com
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">Michael</A> ; <A title=ecooper@turbonet.com
href="mailto:ecooper@turbonet.com">ecooper@turbonet.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Crazy
Train</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Michael, Ed et. al.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Social Science, like Political Science, is an oxymoron... but I think
that "morality," and certainly not sexual morality, may have little to do
with the survival or demise of a given society. Some very brutal and
dictatorial societies (ancient Egypt) survived for millennia, but not because
they were "moral" by the standards of morality you appear to follow. In
fact, I think a good case could be made that some societies fall in part
because they are "moral," meaning, from my moral perspective, less
violent and brutal. Other societies survive by doing whatever it takes
to survive, "moral" or not. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Success in warfare is one of the most critical variables
in maintaining the survival of many societies throughout history,
and the more ruthless and vicious the warriors and the tactics employed,
the more the society has the means to maintain itself against external
threats, or to conquer other societies. Thus the willingness to
kill "enemies," to wipe out or assimilate entire
other cultures without compunction, may be a very important variable
to maintain the success of a society, but I trust this does not fit your
definition of how a "moral" society functions. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Societies not structured around the willingness and the
technology to wage all out brutal take no prisoners warfare may be at a
disadvantage in competing with more war oriented societies. Why did the
invading European culture dominate the native cultures in North America,
ending in genocide for many of the native cultures? One dominate
variable: superiority in warfare. This may have had more to do with war
technology and the numbers of Europeans invading (small pox blankets were a
clever tactic, a form of biological warfare), than a lack of willingness on
the part of the native cultures to fight and kill. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>But I doubt it had anything to do with the European rejection of
homosexuality based on Biblical or Judeo-Christian moral superiority, or any
other moral or religious principle that rendered the European
culture morally superior. In fact, I think the European culture
invading North America, based on this vaunted Judeo-Christian moral
tradition, was morally despicable, that their treatment of native
cultures in North America ranks among the most horrendous and cruel examples
of human inhumanity to other humans in the history of the human race. And that
the Judeo-Christian tradition was in fact employed as
ideological/religious justification/rationalization for the hideous, cruel,
monstrous conduct of the Europeans against the native cultures. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>QED </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ted Moffett<BR><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 4/22/06, <B class=gmail_sendername>Michael</B>
<<A onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com" target=_blank>metzler@moscow.com</A>>
wrote: </SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV style="DIRECTION: ltr">
<DIV>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Ed
Writes:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> My example (in </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> gestalt form) was specifically meant to
illustrate that when we began </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> to accept homosexual marriage and
relationships as normal, we morphed </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> from the idea of being a Christian or
Judeo-Christian society based </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> on biblical morality. And, of course, this
is historically when </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> societies get into trouble--the beginning
of the end so to speak. My </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> previous post laid out all the societal
dangers for normalizing </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> homosexual activity..... So, some say that
there are so few, embrace </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> them. The issue is not how any individual
poses a threat to anyone, </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> but how the normalization of homosexuality
endangers the entire </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">>> society.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">I think
we have too easily dismissed this argument. The problem is not the
inference; the problem is making the premises probably true. Ed now has to
tell us a short world history, focused on the causal relations between
acceptance of homosexuality and the general moral break up of society, and
the typical cultural result in the West when the classical and/or
Judeo-Christian framework is rejected. There is still the possible problem
of confusing appropriate law with appropriate morality, but I think we could
table that in order to hear Ed out. So, Ed, are you going to start in
the ancient East or the ancient West? If you can historically verify these
claims I think you would have one interesting argument.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Michael
Metzler </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">P.S. And thanks for treating us like normal
human beings; not often you see conservatives do that around here.
</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV><BR>_____________________________________________________
<BR> List services made available by First Step
Internet,<BR> serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR> <A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.fsr.net/" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A><BR>
mailto:<A
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank>Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>