Jackie Ford asks:<br> <br> "I searched over 100 Ben Franklin sites last night and I could not find this <br> passage anywhere. If anyone (besides his comblessness or any other CCer) <br> could direct me to it, I'd appreciate it. There are several places in Poor <br> Richard's that Ben said the taking care of poor and sick was a DUTY of all <br> who claim God as their own. As does Jesus."<br> <br> <span class="postcolor">Benjamin Franklin wrote that in November 1766, On the Price of Corn and Management of the Poor.<br> <br> Jesus also did not make judgments on the appearances of others. He said love thy neighbors. <br> <br> _DJA<br> <br> <br> </span><br><b><i>J Ford <privatejf32@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> To follow-up on this subject, the following appeared on Dale's blog this <br>week:<br><br>"Ben Franklin Quote of the Day<br><br> !
"[T]he
more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they <br>provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, <br>the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became <br>richer."<br><br> Benjamin Franklin<br><br>HT: John V<br>Published Friday, 17 March, 2006 2:29 PM by dmcourtn"<br><br>I searched over 100 Ben Franklin sites last night and I could not find this <br>passage anywhere. If anyone (besides his comblessness or any other CCer) <br>could direct me to it, I'd appreciate it. There are several places in Poor <br>Richard's that Ben said the taking care of poor and sick was a DUTY of all <br>who claim God as their own. As does Jesus.<br><br>J :]<br><br><br><br><br>>From: "Art Deco" <deco @moscow.com=""><br>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 @moscow.com=""><br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 13:03:56 -0800<br>><br>>Ellen,<br>><br>>Do you not see any conne!
ction
between the following sentences:<br>><br>>"The subject of this thread [meals on wheels] and the issue it deals with <br>>is a perfect opportunity for Christians and so-called Christian <br>>organizations to demonstrate their commitment to the major teachings of the <br>>Gospels."<br>><br>>And<br>><br>>"I don't think most people realize the situations (physical, mental, <br>>social, etc. ) of the people who benefit from meals on wheels." --Tom Ivie<br>><br>>And<br>><br>>What should be the object of a Christian's charity according to the Gospels <br>>of Christ? The poor and the sick!<br>><br>>???<br>><br>>Instead of a bunch of hypocrites pretending to be Christians, why do we not <br>>seeing them aiding the poor and sick like those that depend on Meals and <br>>Wheels and thus demonstrating their commitment to fundamental Christian <br>>principles instead of gifting an already wealthy parson with a
truck?<br>><br>><br>>As a reminder I append the appropriate scripture. Notice that according to <br>>Christ in this passage the only way to get to heaven is by helping the <br>>unfortunate, including the poor and sick.<br>><br>>For those Christians without the patience to read the primary source in the <br>>first book of the New Testament here is a recap:<br>><br>>At end times God will denote all persons as either sheep or goats. The <br>>sheep are the ones who practiced aiding the unfortunate. The goats did <br>>not. The sheep go to heaven. The goats go to hell.<br>><br>>Of course, those who are not Christians may choose to act kindly toward the <br>>unfortunate. Those who allege they are Christians, but do not make it a <br>>ruling priority/practice in their lives to aid the unfortunate, are either <br>>hypocrites or self-deceivers. It is not enough to "Talk the Talk," but a <br>>Christian must Walk the
Walk."<br>><br>><br>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>>deco@moscow.com<br>><br>><br>>Matthew 25:31 et seq Young's Literal Translation of the Bible<br>><br>><br>><br>>[The Words of Christ:]<br>><br>><br>><br>>31 'And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy <br>>messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>32 and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he <br>>shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the <br>>sheep from the goats,<br>><br>><br>><br>>33 and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on <br>>the left.<br>><br>><br>><br>>34 'Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the <br>>blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you <br>>from the foundation of the
world;<br>><br>><br>><br>>35 for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me <br>>to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;<br>><br>><br>><br>>36 naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in <br>>prison I was, and ye came unto me.<br>><br>><br>><br>>37 'Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see <br>>thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?<br>><br>><br>><br>>38 and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we <br>>put around?<br>><br>><br>><br>>39 and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?<br>><br>><br>><br>>40 'And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, <br>>Inasmuch as ye did it to one of these my brethren-the least-to me ye did <br>>it.<br>><br>><br>><br>>41 Then shall he say also to!
those on
the left hand, Go ye from me, the <br>>cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil <br>>and his messengers;<br>><br>><br>><br>>42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave <br>>me not to drink;<br>><br>><br>><br>>43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not <br>>around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.<br>><br>><br>><br>>44 'Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee <br>>hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, <br>>and we did not minister to thee?<br>><br>><br>><br>>45 'Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as <br>>ye did it not to one of these, the least, ye did it not to me.<br>><br>><br>><br>>46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to <br>>life
age-during.'<br>><br>><br>><br>>----- Original Message -----<br>>From: Ellen Roskovich<br>>To: deco@moscow.com ; vision2020@moscow.com<br>>Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 8:59 AM<br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>><br>><br>>This is SO MISLEADING. This has NOTHING to do with MEALS ON WHEELS. This <br>>is a PRIVATE little inside joke with Joan.<br>><br>>The only reason I opened this was because I thought it was some new info on <br>>the Meals on Wheels dilemma. . . . THAT I am interested in. But NO, it's <br>>just you being yourself.<br>><br>>Where's my DELETE button. . . . .<br>><br>>Ellen Roskovich<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> From: "Art Deco" <deco @moscow.com=""><br>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 @moscow.com=""><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020!
] meals
on wheels<br>> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:17:32 -0800<br>><br>><br>> Joan,<br>><br>> You make several interesting points about the Wilson & Family's Cult & <br>>Cash Machine. However, the reference to the gift of a truck by cult <br>>members to the Cultmaster is a very telling one. It shows how unchristian <br>>the organization and its starry-eyed flock is and how far they have <br>>hypocritically wandered from the teachings of Christ in whom they allege to <br>>believe.<br>><br>> What should be the object of a Christian's charity according to the <br>>Gospels of Christ? The poor and the sick!<br>><br>> But don't just take the word of a nonbeliever for it. Below, with <br>>emphasis added, is a timely article by a religious professional from the <br>>USAToday of March 12, 2006 discussing this same subject, albeit in a wider <br>>context, and much more eloquently than I can.<br>><br>> Read i!
t and
draw your own conclusions not only about the Wilson & <br>>Family's Cult & Cash Machine but about some other area religious <br>>organizations. The subject of this thread and the issue it deals with is a <br>>perfect opportunity for Christians and so-called Christian organizations to <br>>demonstrate their commitment to the major teachings of the Gospels.<br>><br>> Cheers,<br>><br>><br>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>> deco@moscow.com<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Posted 3/12/2006 8:27 PM USAToday<br>><br>> Not heard from the pulpit<br>> By Tom Ehrich<br>><br>> Preachers and Sunday school teachers are pulling their punches these <br>>days regarding morality. Our nation needs ethical and religious instruction <br>>in the basics: honesty, fidelity, humility, sharing wealth, sharing power <br>>and sacrifice. Yet those are the last topics one is likely to hear !
in
<br>>churches.<br>> Instead, for more than a decade, preachers have been grandstanding about <br>>such secondary issues as sexuality, Christmas greetings and <br>>institution-building.<br>><br>> Consider the day in 2004 when former Enron Corp. chief Ken Lay appeared <br>>in federal court to answer an 11-count indictment for fraud, conspiracy and <br>>false statements. (Lay is on trial in Houston.) On the way to court, he <br>>stopped by Houston's prominent First United Methodist Church to pray. His <br>>pastor accompanied him when he turned himself in to authorities.<br>><br>> Good gestures, to be sure, but how had Lay, a regular worshiper and lay <br>>leader, gotten so ethically challenged? Some ethical guidance clearly had <br>>gone unheard or unspoken. His church encourages "disciplines of faithful <br>>living," but current Sunday classes sound the bell for self-improvement, <br>>not sacrificial giving or courageous h!
onesty in
a world growing accustomed <br>>to deceit.<br>><br>> When WorldCom chief Bernard Ebbers began to feel the heat of scandal, he <br>>stood before his friends at Easthaven Baptist Church, in Brookhaven, Miss., <br>>and declared, "I just want you to know you aren't going to church with a <br>>crook." A federal jury disagreed and convicted him of fraud. How could a <br>>dedicated Sunday school teacher have gotten so off track? His church's <br>>mission statement is about the institution's growth potential, not about <br>>living decent lives.<br>><br>> Attending church surely doesn't make one immune to ungodly deeds? we are <br>>all sinners, after all? but churchgoers should be able to get guidance on <br>>how to lead a responsible life, not reminders of church politics, from the <br>>pulpit.<br>><br>> Jesus devoted roughly two-thirds of his teachings to our need to give <br>>away wealth and to value humility and servanthoo!
d more
than power. Paul <br>>condemned "love of money." Hebrew prophets spoke forcefully against greed, <br>>bribery and injustice. The Law of Moses is concerned with basic ethics? <br>>respect for persons and property, truth-telling, generosity and mercy.<br>><br>> Yet, in the typical congregation, it is safer to preach about someone <br>>else's sexual behavior than about wise and faithful use of money, or on <br>>economic dislocation, corporate ethics or widening gaps in the distribution <br>>of wealth. That's my conclusion based on a survey of several dozen websites <br>>and posted sermons, as well as my experience both as a preacher and <br>>listener.<br>><br>> One winning formula goes after themes that are minor in Scripture but <br>>big in the culture wars.<br>><br>> Consider Tom DeLay, often identified as a born-again Christian, whose <br>>indictment for money laundering forced him to resign as Republican leader <br>>!
in the
House of Representatives. A recent sermon series at a church with <br>>which he used to be associated condemned homosexuality, abortion and <br>>gambling. But it ignored Scripture's more basic theme of honesty and mercy <br>>as hallmarks of truth, and leadership as requiring people "who fear God, <br>>are trustworthy, and hate dishonest gain."<br>><br>> With rare exceptions, preachers of all stripes seem to avoid what Jesus <br>>said about wealth and power. Instead, they preach about church politics, <br>>upcoming festivals and personal improvement.<br>><br>> Despite cascading corporate and political scandals, a widening gap <br>>between rich and poor and mounting arrogance in public life, I read hardly <br>>a word about honesty, integrity, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, kindness <br>>or humility.<br>><br>> I know how dangerous it is to venture into the nuts and bolts of <br>>Christian ethics. People will endure sermons!
about
esoterica such as stem <br>>cell research or same-sex marriage, but they'll squirm when talk turns to <br>>personal priorities, time spent away from family, wealth accumulation, <br>>casual adultery or truth-telling. It is safer to lambaste gays than to tout <br>>Jesus' model of embracing diversity. It is more profitable to back one <br>>political party than to call all leaders to account for their behavior. A <br>>dull preacher will be tolerated; an intrusive one will be fired.<br>><br>> Our nation needs better from us. We don't need extremist politics <br>>masquerading as Christian morality. We need solid and consistent <br>>instruction in the basics of godly living. We can't hold churches <br>>accountable for what parishioners refuse to hear. But we can hold them <br>>accountable for what they shrink from saying.<br>><br>> Tom Ehrich is an Episcopal pastor, author, teacher and writer in Durham,
<br>>N.C.<br>><br>><br>><br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: Joan Opyr<br>> To: Tom Ivie<br>> Cc: Vision2020 Moscow<br>> Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:36 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>><br>><br>> On 17 Mar 2006, at 16:10, Tom Ivie wrote:<br>><br>><br>> This really sounds like a silent tragedy. I am surprised the papers <br>>haven't done anything with this story. I don't think most people realize <br>>the situations (physical, mental, social, etc. ) of the people who benefit <br>>from meals on wheels. I hope for our seniors sake that this can get <br>>resolved soon. Linda Pike is a real go-getter and if anyone can find a <br>>workable solution, she can.<br>><br>><br>><br>> I agree with you, Tom, except for the part where you express surprise <br>>that this story has not been covered by our local papers. That's the one <br>>piece of this whol!
e ordeal
that doesn't surprise me at all. The Daily News <br>>has fallen to bits. While Ed Iverson piddles away all the editorial board's <br>>credibility on the Op-Ed page, the Daily News staff miss story after story <br>>after story. And what they do cover they generally screw up. "WalMart Given <br>>Yellow Light By Moscow P & Z?" Was the DN reporter attending the same P & Z <br>>meeting that everyone else attended? I don't think so; I think their <br>>reporter was (once again) in a parallel universe. You know, that universe <br>>in which Tom Henderson of the Lewiston Tribune bemoans the fact that when <br>>George Bush breaks the law, Congress changes the law to make Bush's actions <br>>retroactively legal. Meanwhile, Henderson's wife, Virginia, argues on <br>>behalf of the Daily New that when Doug Wilson defies city zoning ordinance <br>>not once, not twice, but three times, it is both wise and reasonable for <br>>the city to set fire t!
o its
comprehensive plan in order to rewrite the <br>>zoning laws to suit him. Fascinatin', ain't it?<br>><br>> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment<br>> www.joanopyr.com<br>><br>> PS: I fear that while Doug screams persecution, what he actually gets is <br>>special treatment. Say, do you think their might be a connection? If I <br>>flash my ULC Minister's card around, will the city let me run a meth lab in <br>>my chicken house? It sure would help me pay the mortgage and, um, meth is <br>>part of my religious observance. Yeah, that's the ticket! Yeah! And <br>>marijuana, too. I need a greenhouse and some grow lamps. Anyone care to <br>>make a Church of Auntie Establishment tax-fraud-deductible "love gift?" Or <br>>perhaps buy me a new truck? You can do that in my church just as easily as <br>>in Doug's -- and the truck doesn't have to be new. In fact, it doesn't have <br>>to be a truck. I'm still plumping for that 1968 Mustang Fastbac!
k,
folks!<br>><br>><br>><br>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>><br>> _____________________________________________________<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> http://www.fsr.net<br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////<br>><br>><br>> >_____________________________________________________<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>><br>>_____________________________________________________<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> http://www.fsr.net<br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<br>><br>><br>><br>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>><br>>This is SO MISLEADING. This has NOTHING to do with MEALS ON WHEELS. This <br>>is a PRIVATE little inside joke with Joan.<br>><br>>The only reason I opened this was because I thought it was some new info on <br>>the Meals on Wheels dilemma. . . . THAT I am interested in. But NO, it's <br>>just you be!
ing
yourself.<br>><br>>Where's my DELETE button. . . . .<br>><br>>Ellen Roskovich<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> From: "Art Deco" <deco @moscow.com=""><br>> To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 @moscow.com=""><br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>> Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:17:32 -0800<br>><br>><br>> Joan,<br>><br>> You make several interesting points about the Wilson & Family's Cult & <br>>Cash Machine. However, the reference to the gift of a truck by cult <br>>members to the Cultmaster is a very telling one. It shows how unchristian <br>>the organization and its starry-eyed flock is and how far they have <br>>hypocritically wandered from the teachings of Christ in whom they allege to <br>>believe.<br>><br>> What should be the object of a Christian's !
charity
according to the <br>>Gospels of Christ? The poor and the sick!<br>><br>> But don't just take the word of a nonbeliever for it. Below, with <br>>emphasis added, is a timely article by a religious professional from the <br>>USAToday of March 12, 2006 discussing this same subject, albeit in a wider <br>>context, and much more eloquently than I can.<br>><br>> Read it and draw your own conclusions not only about the Wilson & <br>>Family's Cult & Cash Machine but about some other area religious <br>>organizations. The subject of this thread and the issue it deals with is a <br>>perfect opportunity for Christians and so-called Christian organizations to <br>>demonstrate their commitment to the major teachings of the Gospels.<br>><br>> Cheers,<br>><br>><br>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>> deco@moscow.com<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Posted 3/12/2006 8:27 PM
USAToday<br>><br>> Not heard from the pulpit<br>> By Tom Ehrich<br>><br>> Preachers and Sunday school teachers are pulling their punches these <br>>days regarding morality. Our nation needs ethical and religious instruction <br>>in the basics: honesty, fidelity, humility, sharing wealth, sharing power <br>>and sacrifice. Yet those are the last topics one is likely to hear in <br>>churches.<br>> Instead, for more than a decade, preachers have been grandstanding about <br>>such secondary issues as sexuality, Christmas greetings and <br>>institution-building.<br>><br>> Consider the day in 2004 when former Enron Corp. chief Ken Lay appeared <br>>in federal court to answer an 11-count indictment for fraud, conspiracy and <br>>false statements. (Lay is on trial in Houston.) On the way to court, he <br>>stopped by Houston's prominent First United Methodist Church to pray. His <br>>pastor accompanied him when he turned!
himself
in to authorities.<br>><br>> Good gestures, to be sure, but how had Lay, a regular worshiper and lay <br>>leader, gotten so ethically challenged? Some ethical guidance clearly had <br>>gone unheard or unspoken. His church encourages "disciplines of faithful <br>>living," but current Sunday classes sound the bell for self-improvement, <br>>not sacrificial giving or courageous honesty in a world growing accustomed <br>>to deceit.<br>><br>> When WorldCom chief Bernard Ebbers began to feel the heat of scandal, he <br>>stood before his friends at Easthaven Baptist Church, in Brookhaven, Miss., <br>>and declared, "I just want you to know you aren't going to church with a <br>>crook." A federal jury disagreed and convicted him of fraud. How could a <br>>dedicated Sunday school teacher have gotten so off track? His church's <br>>mission statement is about the institution's growth potential, not about <br>>living decent lives.<br>>!
<br>>
Attending church surely doesn't make one immune to ungodly deeds? we are <br>>all sinners, after all? but churchgoers should be able to get guidance on <br>>how to lead a responsible life, not reminders of church politics, from the <br>>pulpit.<br>><br>> Jesus devoted roughly two-thirds of his teachings to our need to give <br>>away wealth and to value humility and servanthood more than power. Paul <br>>condemned "love of money." Hebrew prophets spoke forcefully against greed, <br>>bribery and injustice. The Law of Moses is concerned with basic ethics? <br>>respect for persons and property, truth-telling, generosity and mercy.<br>><br>> Yet, in the typical congregation, it is safer to preach about someone <br>>else's sexual behavior than about wise and faithful use of money, or on <br><br>=== message truncated ===</vision2020></deco></vision2020></deco></vision2020></deco></blockquote><br><p>
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