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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bruce, Regarding your "third category opponent"
argument. Just exactly how does a community attract business development? The
current city government couldn't attract iron filings if it were a lodestone nor
would it be inclined to from what I can see. I am most certainly not an
economic expert but I would think that what attracts development is a ready
market and a relatively clear path. How does jamming a stick in the eye of one
business, in the form of regulatory road blocks, make another want to try
its luck? It would seem to me that our current MCA laden leadership will
simply drive all future economic development across the border into Whitman
county and the city of Moscow will languish in exactly the same way that, until
recently, Pullman has. Until a more "laissez faire" policy becomes the
order of the day I fear Moscow's future prospects seem bleak. As a planer
or a consumer, sitting around wishing that a Target, a Best Buy, A Costco, or
whatever dream store you imagine should take the place of a Super Wal-Mart will
magically drop into your community, simply because you badly
want it to be so, will not result in your desired outcome. Step out
of the way and let 'er rip.The outcome can't be any worse than having our
community dry up and blow away from lack of growth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gary</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jeanlivingston@turbonet.com
href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com">Bruce and Jean Livingston</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 04, 2006 6:24
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Goodnight
Goody, Goodnight Ridge</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>ssez</FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I imagine someone telling Dave he can't expand Paradise
Ridge CDs, and I don't like it. </FONT><FONT face=Arial>But the obvious
analogy to Wal-Mart that you are trying to make is not a clean one, in my
opinion, Donovan, though I do agree with some of what you write.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>First, I wouldn't be the least bit concerned about
people telling me where they thought I should shop. I kept buying
grapes, even though the Farm Workers were trying to organize a boycott.
I listen to the reasons for not shopping at Wal-Mart, and I agree with some of
them, but I still shop at Wal-Mart on rare occasions. I try to patronize
other places, and I always try Tri-State or Spence's, first, because I think
it is important to patronize local businesses to help assure that more money
stays in the community. But I admit it, my razor blades come from
Wal-Mart when I don't have a Costco run in the offing.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>People may still shop at Wal-Mart, as they
could at any other store that is operating here. I don't begrudge
others the opportunity to shop at Wal-Mart, and I agree with the free market
advocates and the need for business opportunities in our community, and so I
agree with the right to expand when it comports with good planning and the
law. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>But if Dave were in the mood to expand Paradise Ridge,
by buying up one of his neighbors on Third Street in the heart of downtown,
where retail sales are the dominant and preferred activity according to our
zoning code and comprehensive plan, anybody arguing against that expansion
would have worthless arguments, and the expansion would be approved.
That is where your analogy falls apart, unless you were contemplating plunking
the CD store in an area where it was not allowed -- in which case I would
likely not support that location despite my affection for the
business.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I think that what many fail to recognize is that there
are too kinds of Wal-Mart opponents out there in our community right
now: those who abhor Wal-Mart and would deny its entry anywhere,
and those who question the planning that went into this particular expansion
effort. I am on record as being in the latter category. If I can
find the reasons that I submitted to the P&Z public hearing, I will
forward them to the list. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Briefly, I believe that the proposed extensive
commercial motor business designation of the Thompson property is poor
planning. Such developments should have occurred between downtown and
the state line, as the comprehensive plan dictated, had not the lack of vision
by prior councils allowed most of that property along A street to become
apartments, contrary to the comprehensive plan. Such a plan would still
allow us to shop and draw us through downtown, making it more likely that our
lovely downtown is a convenient stop along the way. There is still
opportunity for expanded commercial development in the area from behind the
mall to the state line, as was proposed at the same council meeting last
June when the Thompson project first surfaced. Equally and
maybe more important given greater availability, there is a much more
obvious existing site than the Thompson property for such extensive commercial
developments at the north and south ends of town along Highway 95, a far
better traffic corridor. The Thompson property ought, in my opinion, to
be primarily residential (as it was designated in the comp plan until a bad
planning decision by the prior council last June) and not destroy the ambience
of the existing owners to the east and across the street on Ridge.
Finally, we ought to be saving the west end of the Thompson property for
future expansion of higher paying businesses than a shopping center; we ought
to allow Alturas that room to expand, while fostering a pro-business attitude
and encouraging businesses that pay at least living wages to locate
here.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Now at the risk of being a little windy here, and if you
are not already snoozing, there is a third category of Wal-Mart opponent, in
my opinion and of which I am also a member, and it relates to limited
opportunities for shopping in Moscow, the almighty mantra of "market
choice." I mentioned this on the list a while back and it engendered
little discussion. I expected to hear a rebuttal from Jeff Harkins who
is the most fervent free marketer on the list and my compatriot on the
LEDC, and he said he was working on it, but I seem to have missed
it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The "more market choice" category that I just
mentioned might at first blush appear to support letting anyone expand
and enter, and see what happens, the classic laissez faire free market
approach. But what I am contemplating is something different.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It seems to me that we are a very small community with a
relatively limited amount of disposable income to spend in (and therefore
support) the local stores of all types. Wal-Mart offers one kind of
shopping venue, and a Super Wal-Mart would admittedly offer more
(if perhaps of the same lower quality) and the most significant
addition might be food. There is already a Wal-Mart here. There
are four grocery stores, the Co-op on the high end, Winco on the low end
(offering similar pricing to Wal-Mart from what I understand) and Rosauer's
and Safeway in between. There will soon be a Super Wal-Mart a mere ten
miles away in Pullman. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The market choice that I am talking about is more
choices for us. Why a Wal-Mart which we already have? Why not
something else, so our consumer choices are enhanced more than by the
expansion of the existing low-end product line at Wal-Mart? Why not have
our city and economic development and business supporters work on attracting
an alternative to Wal-Mart, so that our limited choices are not so likely to
become primarily Wal-Mart? Why not work harder to attract something more
interesting and beneficial to consumer choice? Why let Wal-Mart pre-empt
the market and fill it up in the predatory fashion that it appears to be
following with two supercenters within 10 miles? Why are we only talking
about the choices that the entrepreneurs choose to offer and not the
choices that we consumers would like to see? We could work toward
educating other entrepreneurs and attracting them instead, and if we put in
place rules that applied to all and some chose to play where Wal-Mart didn't,
why wouldn't we be better off by having more varied choices?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Perhaps most significant to my "more consumer choices"
angle, why let a 200,000 square foot store come in and soak up the available
dollars in this very small community and make it less likely for other more
varied folks to enter our market? Why isn't 100,000 square feet enough
in this little community? A size cap would allow us more choices.
I have a good friend on the Chamber Board (who would probably prefer
to remain nameless) and he likes to talk about how students often have the
most disposable dollars to spend, despite their low income, and that we ought
to be able to market Moscow and interest someone other than Wal-Mart to enter
our community. If we are to have big boxes in our community, why not be
pro-active and get us more real choice for Moscow's consumers, rather than
more of the Wal-Mart we already have? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Several of my MCA Board buddies who oppose Wal-Mart
and big boxes in general characterize this as the "pig in silk pajamas"
argument, because I do believe that large stores ought to be allowed, but play
nice and look nice, whereas these others oppose them on general
principles. I don't want large stores to just make the
"great big sucking noise" Ross Perot once described, though he was talking
about jobs going to Mexico and I am talking about more of our dollars going to
Bentonville Arkansas. If we are to have out-of-town chains, I would
much prefer to have a Costco that pays living wages than a Wal-Mart that does
not, even if lots of those dollars spent go to Seattle. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Lest someone misconstrue this, I don't believe we can
choose one retailer over the other on the whim of the Council. We
need rules that are applied fairly to all retailers and then we need to apply
the rules fairly, but I do believe we can encourage better and more varied
consumer choices through thoughtful legislating and pro-active and
creative economic development efforts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Putting a halt to an ill-conceived project buys us the
time to do things better the next time, to have a good plan in place, and
to be ready for things instead of just reacting to the next request on a
developer's wish list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bruce Livingston</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=jeanlivingston@turbonet.com
href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com">Bruce and Jean Livingston</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 03, 2006 11:08
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Goodnight
Goody, Goodnight Ridge</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT
face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT
face=Arial></FONT><FONT face=Arial></FONT><FONT
face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>"I am flabbergasted to hear Sam Goody compared
favorably by anyone to <BR>Paradise Ridge. I find that Paradise Ridge is
extremely competitive <BR>price-wise with Hasting's, not to mention Sam
Goody."-Bruce Livingston<BR><BR>Apparently, enough people are in agreement
with you, since SM is going out of business and Paradise Ridge is still
here. Isn't free enterprise great? <BR><BR>Now image Bruce, is someone
wanted to stop Paradise Ridge from expanding to provide you with better
products and service but others that did not shop there were disagreement
with you, opposed the expansion, and telling you to go to Sam Goody
instead.<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR><B><I>Bruce and Jean Livingston
<jeanlivingston@turbonet.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">I
am flabbergasted to hear Sam Goody compared favorably by anyone to
<BR>Paradise Ridge. I find that Paradise Ridge is extremely competitive
<BR>price-wise with Hasting's, not to mention Sam Goody. And the one thing
that <BR>you get from Paradise Ridge that you do not get anywhere else, at
least to <BR>the level that you receive from Dave at Paradise Ridge, is
SERVICE. If he <BR>doesn't have it, he finds it, and the ordering process
with Paradise Ridge <BR>is far easier than any other store in
town.<BR><BR>Bruce Livingston<BR><BR>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "Art Deco" <DECO @moscow.com=""><BR>To: "Vision 2020"
<VISION2020 @moscow.com=""><BR>Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 11:02
AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Goodnight Goody, Goodnight
Ridge<BR><BR><BR>> Music Lovers, Economists, and Absolute
Monists,<BR>><BR>> The following words appeared in the letter below
written by Jay Feldman <BR>> and<BR>> posted by Tom
Hansen:<BR>><BR>> "Ross tells us there is just such a store in
Moscow, Paradise Ridge <BR>> Records,<BR>> but he is unwilling to
patronize it because its prices are higher than the<BR>> defunct
Goody."<BR>><BR>> I believe the assumption in this quote is wrong.
My experience has been<BR>> that Sam Goody had the highest CD prices on
the Palouse by a considerable<BR>> margin except for advertised
specials, some of the prices of these <BR>> specials<BR>> were still
higher than Paradise Ridge CDs' prices.<BR>><BR>> For example, I
recently bought Moonlight Serenade by Carly Simon (a<BR>> collection of
really old tunes for really old people like myself, done <BR>>
quite<BR>> tastefully). The album comes with a disc which is a CD on
one side and a<BR>> DVD on the other. It was priced at $19.98 at Sam
Goody and $16.98<BR>> elsewhere. When I shopped at Paradise Ridge CDs,
I found their prices<BR>> competitive -- many were below list.
Discussions with others lead me to<BR>> believe that they found prices
highest by far at Sam Goody also.<BR>><BR>> Sam Goody at the PEM is
closing in part because of corporate problems, <BR>> part<BR>> of
which may be related to their pricing strategies. The local Sam
Goody<BR>> also had other problems, some not fit for discussion on this
list.<BR>><BR>><BR>> For those keeping track:<BR>><BR>>
There are seven, soon to be eight vacancies at the PEM:<BR>><BR>> 1.
Army Recruiters<BR>> 2. Marine Recruiters<BR>> 3. Optometrist
Office<BR>> 4. Chocolaut<BR>> 5. Flower Shop<BR>> 6.
Subway<BR>> 7. Market Place Gifts<BR>> 8. Sam Goody<BR>><BR>>
There are persistent rumors that one quite large retailer is
seriously<BR>> considering leaving.<BR>><BR>>
Questions:<BR>><BR>> 1. Where is the PEM in its life cycle?<BR>>
2. Did the redecoration at the PEM with the oodles of light fixtures
<BR>> that<BR>> makes one think that they are in the midst of an
extensive, well organized<BR>> invasion of flying saucers help or
hinder the effort to attract more<BR>> customers?<BR>> 3. Did the
stinginess/anti-community attitude of the PEM management in<BR>>
eliminating the bus stop help or hinder the volume of business?<BR>> 4.
If the vacancies at the PEM are an indication in some way of <BR>>
problems<BR>> of some kind with the local economy, how does this
reflect on plans for <BR>> the<BR>> big jesus shopping mall planned
for just over the state line?<BR>> 5. Does the PEM vacancy rate have
anything to do with the WalMart or <BR>> the<BR>> two proposed
WalMart Super Centers?<BR>> 6. What, if anything, could the PEM
management do to increase the <BR>> general<BR>> volume of
business?<BR>><BR>> Of course, question 3 above is quite biasly
stated; however, I think some<BR>> community reflection on these
questions would be helpful in examining and<BR>> shaping some community
values.<BR>><BR>><BR>> Quite sadly, a downtown store which we
patronized very happily, is soon to<BR>> go out of business. Although
they carried a really excellent line of<BR>> products, gave excellent
customer service, were very product <BR>> knowledgeable,<BR>> and
had an extremely liberal return policy, they are being squeezed by
the<BR>> internet. This is what happens: People come in and look at
the<BR>> merchandise, get detailed information, ask technical
questions, examine<BR>> closely /try on the products, then they order
the products over the<BR>> internet.<BR>><BR>> For many items we
buy locally, we do just the opposite. We research using<BR>> the
internet, then buy or special order the products locally. Local<BR>>
merchants contribute and support many diverse community activities
--<BR>> internet etailers do not. Etailers generally do not collect
Idaho sales <BR>> tax<BR>> either.<BR>><BR>> Are any list
members are concerned about the health of several local<BR>> business
who face heavy competition from the internet?<BR>><BR>><BR>> Art
Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR>>
deco@moscow.com<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ----- Original Message
----- <BR>> From: "Tom Hansen" <THANSEN @moscow.com=""><BR>> To:
"Moscow Vision 2020" <VISION2020 @moscow.com=""><BR>> Sent: Friday,
March 03, 2006 6:57 AM<BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] Goodnight Goody,
Goodnight Ridge<BR>><BR>><BR>>> >From today's (March 3,
2006) UI Argonaut with a special thanks to Jay<BR>>>
Feldman.<BR>>><BR>>>
----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>><BR>>>
Goodnight Goody, goodnight Ridge<BR>>><BR>>> Dear
Editor,<BR>>><BR>>> Am I the only one that noticed the irony
in the placement of the column<BR>>> "Death of a pop supercenter"
next to the anti-Superwalmart editorial?<BR>>> The writer, Jon Ross,
laments that Sam Goody is going out of business<BR>>> nationwide
(including Moscow) while he dreams of an indie-esque record <BR>>>
store<BR>>> in Moscow to replace it. Oddly though, Ross tells us
there is just such a<BR>>> store in Moscow, Paradise Ridge Records,
but he is unwilling to patronize <BR>>> it<BR>>> because its
prices are higher than the defunct Goody.<BR>>><BR>>> Well, as
consumers, we can't have it both ways. We can't have quality<BR>>>
independent stores that pay more into the local tax base, offer
<BR>>> personalized<BR>>> service, a greater selection, a
professional staff that is paid a living<BR>>> wage, along with, as
the writer expects, "cheap music." Yet, we expect to<BR>>> because
Wal-Mart has responded to our deep desire for the lowest price
by<BR>>> setting us on a race to the bottom where every store must
match its <BR>>> prices<BR>>> regardless of what that store
might offer its patrons and its community.<BR>>><BR>>>
Unfortunately, in America, price has become the sole factor in
deciding<BR>>> which stores we frequent. As the world's largest
retailer, Wal-Mart can<BR>>> offer the lowest prices possible but at
a high cost to communities like<BR>>> Moscow. Shoppers have come to
assume the Wal-Mart price is the proper <BR>>> market<BR>>>
price and the Wal-Mart price thus is the price we should expect to
pay.<BR>>> Because of such a mentality, shoppers - including Ross,
at his own <BR>>> admission<BR>>> - will not pay more than
this false standard. As a result, when forced to<BR>>> compete with
a Super Wal-Mart, small independent stores, like many in<BR>>>
Moscow, go out of business and small towns are left with the
impersonal,<BR>>> poor selection, tax-base draining, Super
Wal-Marts, just the position <BR>>> Ross<BR>>>
laments.<BR>>><BR>>> Certainly paying a bit extra is difficult
for many, and luckily we have <BR>>> the<BR>>> independent
chain WinCo to provide us with groceries that beat any Super<BR>>>
Wal-Mart's prices and an existing Wal-Mart for those who wish to shop
<BR>>> there.<BR>>> What we don't need is a Wal-Mart
Supercenter that will reinforce this<BR>>> "lowest price at any
cost" mentality.<BR>>><BR>>> Ross laments not having a
quality, all-music store in Moscow, when in <BR>>> fact<BR>>>
we do have one. Ross needs to do what so many of us need to do, overcome
<BR>>> our<BR>>> addiction to low price and support the local
businesses whose tax <BR>>> revenues<BR>>> support
us.<BR>>><BR>>> Jay P. Feldman<BR>>> Department of
philosophy<BR>>><BR>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>><BR>>>
Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>>><BR>>> Tom Hansen<BR>>>
Moscow, Idaho<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
**************************************************************<BR>>><BR>>>
"A bad cause will ever be supported by bad means and bad
men."<BR>>><BR>>> - Thomas Paine (English Writer,
1737-1809)<BR>>><BR>>>
**************************************************************<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
_____________________________________________________<BR>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>
http://www.fsr.net<BR>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>>
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services made available by First Step Internet, serving the <BR>>
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