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Jeff,
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Thanks, very much, for the explanation of KB Toys demise. Apologies to
J. Ford who hinted at a similar point that I failed to investigate
further. (I did a quick search for KB on the web, and find a website,
thought that they were still in business.) I don't remember Gary
saying anything even close to the explanation below, but either way
the details are helpful.
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A few points though. The Moscow store was closed well before the
Spokane store. I find it hard to believe that local market factors had
nothing to do with this. But this is a minor point.
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A somewhat more substantive point is that toy stores like KB Toys, as
well as grocery stores like Albertsons, are having a difficult time
staying in business given the success of Super Wal-Marts. Jeff, you
know a lot about economics but you know nothing about toys if you
think that the selection at Wal-Mart and the selection at KB Toys is
the same. It just isn't. Trust me. I've spent a lot of time in the
last few years in each (I shoped at Wal-Mart regularly up until 2
months ago). Just taking hot wheels cars, for instance, KB had a much
better selection.
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<p>
Further, my claim was not that "good businesses were being driven out
by bad businesses." My point was that the so-called 'free market' does
not always lead to an increase in consumer choice. It was a rebutal of
an old article of economic faith uttered continuously by Donovan but,
I believe, also by yourself and Gary.
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<p>
Let's skip the KB example since there are facts about that case of
which I am clearly ignorant. Let's, instead, borrow a piece of
economic analysis offered by Gary in a previous post. There he claimed
that KB Toys and its ilk were being pushed out by a move toward
computer games and other electronic toys as well as the increase of
web-based toy stores. It just so happens that (a) I don't like
computer games and I don't want my son to play them (I'll save you the
explanation) and (b) I don't like to order things on-line (I'll save
you the explanation here, too). Sure, I'm old-fashioned but my point
is the the so-called free market has not lead to a greater number of
choices for the consumer. We are forced now by 'consumer demand' to
purchase new and different toys in stores or older models on-line.
There is only an appearance of an increase of choice provided that you
happen to like what the majority of people like. If your tastes and
inclinations go against the majority, too bad for you.
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Again, Gary might say something about my selfish motivations but he is
(again) missing the point. I ask you, people of Moscow: Do you live
here because Moscow is like every place else or because it is
different? Do you think of yourself as someone who thinks just like
everyone else or someone who thinks outside the box? If the answer to
both is the latter, do what you can to CHOOSE now to ensure that
Moscow remains unique before low-cost and convenience turns it into
Anytown, USA.<br>--<br>Joe Campbell<br><br>---- Jeff Harkins <jeffh moscow.com="#DEFAULT">
wrote:<br><br>=============<br>Before I invest the time necessary to unravel
the<br>comments by Mr. Schou, I need to divest myself<br>from the
claim by Ms. Opyr that I asked for an<br>example of a good business
driven out by a bad<br>(or whatever). I made no such request. I did<br>
respond to the query raised by Gary (which I<br>considered an
appropriate question, given the<br>claim by J Campbell that good
businesses were<br>being driven out by bad businesses - the thread<br>
is clear - J Campbell offered up the example)<br><br>I provided
evidence supporting a position that KB<br>Toys left Moscow, entered
into E-commerce as a<br>result of being convicted of charges of price<br>
manipulation, which appears to have resulted in<br>their declaration of
bankruptcy. If there was a<br>Wal-Mart connection, it doesn't appear
to be part of the public record.<br><br>Ms. Opyr appears to be
careless in her reading<br>and quick to indict. It would make V2020
more<br>useful as a public forum if you would be more careful in your
posts.<br><br>I am unsure of the value of knowing Ms. Opyr's<br>
consumption habits. Personal consumption habits<br>are ......
personal. Oddly enough, I found a<br>very different toy selection at
Wal-Mart than she<br>described. While shopping for toys for nieces<br>
and nephews this Christmas season, I noted that<br>most all the
retailers in the area carried pretty<br>much the same toys (my guess
is that their<br>inventory is driven by what they perceive their<br>
market demand is - ah - what the kids want!) The<br>real challenge was
to find a retailer that<br>actually had the item in stock (not sold<br>
out). Some of the items were found in the malls,<br>some at Walmart -
alas - some could only be found in Spokane.<br><br>But, as to the
availability of KB Toys, their<br>products are still available through
their E-Commerce site.<br><br>Finally, I took no personal position on
whether<br>KB was a good business or a bad business - we all<br>have
our personal and subjective standards for<br>such qualitative
judgments. I did make the claim<br>that KB Toys was not a superior
business and I<br>did provide additional information so that those<br>
interested would have more info about the factors<br>leading to KB's
decision to close the Moscow Mall store.<br><br>Now, to the Schou
matter .... till then.<br><br><br>At 03:43 PM 1/30/2006, you wrote:<br>
>Dear Visionaries:<br>><br>>Jeff Harkins and Gary Crabtree asked
a few days<br>>ago for examples of good businesses driven<br>>out<br>
>by bad. Joe Campbell attempted to supply them<br>>with just such an
example in the demise of<br>>KayBee Toys. The problem here, however,
is not<br>>with Joe's answer but with Harkins' and<br>>Crabtree's
question, which is a classic example<br>>of petititio elenchi, i.e.,
begging the<br>>question.<br>><br>>The underlying assumption in
Harkins/Crabtree's<br>>reasoning is that the "good" or "superior"<br>
><br>>business is always the one that survives. But<br>>that reasoning
depends on how you define<br>>superior. KayBee Toys, which offered a<br>
>demonstrably superior selection of goods than<br>>WalMart,<br>>went out
of business. Is WalMart therefore the<br>>better store? Define better.
WalMart<br>>offers five<br>>aisles of cheap, plastic, Chinese-made
toys,<br>>none of which I'd care to purchase. Like<br>>Joe, I prefer<br>
>to buy my kids' toys at Hodgins<br>>Drugs. Why? Quality and selection.
It's also possible<br>>at Hodgins<br>>to buy the occasional
union-made toy. Flip the<br>>toy and read the box. If it's made in a<br>
>country<br>>noted for its poor labor practices, tell your<br>>kids,
"Sorry, but I suspect that someone<br>>your age<br>
>manufactured this doll in an overseas sweatshop." Move on to the next
item.<br>><br>>(There, Dale -- more evidence for your blog that I'm
a communist.)<br>><br>>In Harkins/Crabtree's view, it would seem
that<br>>cheaper is always better. Perhaps<br>>convenience<br>
>also plays some role (KayBee Toys didn't sell<br>>toothpaste or
underwear) but weren't we also<br>><br>>talking about expansion of
choice? How does<br>>WalMart (or a WalMart Supercenter) represent<br>
>a<br>>genuine expansion of choice? What WalMart<br>>offers is an
inferior selection of toys, most<br>>of poor<br>>quality, but it
offers them at cheap prices and<br>>conveniently locates them between
the<br>>furnace<br>>filters and the dog food. My expanded choice<br>
>seems to be mere convenience and the chance<br>>to<br>>buy something
crappy and disposable for my<br>>kids. It's the bargain that isn't a
bargain --<br>>it's<br>>penny-wise and pound-foolish.<br>><br>
>We have a WalMart already. We need WalMart<br>>Supercenters in
both Moscow and Pullman why?<br>>Because Winco, Rosauers, Safeway, the
Co-Op,<br>>Dissmore's, the Pullman Safeway, Tri-State,<br>>Hodgins,
Les Schwab, Bruneel, Sears,<br>>Deranleau's, Bookpeople, Hastings,
Gottschalk's, the<br>>Bon,<br>>Ross Dress for Less, RiteAid,
JoAnn's,<br>>HyperSpud, Paradise Creek Bicycles, Paradise Ridge<br>
>Records, Goodwill, Shopko, the Internet, and<br>>Moscow's existing
WalMart aren't offering us<br>>enough choice? Or because they're not
offering us enough cheap crap?<br>><br>>Joan Opyr/Auntie
Establishment<br>>www.joanopyr.com<br>><br>><br>
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