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<DIV><FONT size=4>I wonder if this new foray/rant of the Cultmaster on women
might stem from his wondering who really wears the pants in his own
family. Perhaps his childish blog entry is an
over-compensation/compartmentalization to relieve the pain of the creeping
cognizance that his wife is an expert at manipulating him to achieve her goals
while making him think they are his goals. Perhaps at his advancing age
and health deterioration Dr. Grauke will prescribe a testosterone patch for
Wilson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4>From: "Phil Nisbet" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:pcnisbet1@hotmail.com"><FONT
size=4>pcnisbet1@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>To: <</FONT><A href="mailto:joanopyr@earthlink.net"><FONT
size=4>joanopyr@earthlink.net</FONT></A><FONT size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Cc: <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
size=4>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:08 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was
Douglas Wilsononwomen)</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT size=4>> Hey Joan<BR>> <BR>>
You and keely are missing the best question. If women are not able or are
<BR>> barred from action, what is Deborah doing being a Judge, a prophet and
for <BR>> that matter what the heck is she doing being a General of the
Armies? Why <BR>> would G-d give her victory on Tabor of he was dead
set against women in such <BR>> roles?<BR>> <BR>> Then from the same
section, how do you like Jael? Nothing like a tent peg <BR>> to the
brain pan to end a military career. Point being that she is praised
<BR>> for doing what she could to insure victory.<BR>> <BR>> Obviously
there was no consideration that a woman's place was in the home if <BR>>
Ephrim could chose as its person to judge the tribal unit was a woman.
<BR>> Also, the poem "The Song of Deborah", the oldest known Hebrew poetry
and one <BR>> of the oldest portions of Tanahk makes Deborah one of the
oldest writers of <BR>> scripture.<BR>> <BR>> If Deborah's management
was criticalally wrong, why did G-d grant fourty <BR>> years of peace
following her winning of the battle?<BR>> <BR>> Phil Nisbet<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>>>From: Joan Opyr <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joanopyr@earthlink.net"><FONT
size=4>joanopyr@earthlink.net</FONT></A><FONT size=4>><BR>>>To:
Vision2020 Moscow <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
size=4>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>><BR>>>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] what the Bible really teaches (was Douglas Wilson
<BR>>>onwomen)<BR>>>Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:01:44
-0800<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>On 14 Jan 2006, at 23:05, keely
emerinemix wrote:<BR>>><BR>>>>If we take Jesus at his word and
follow his example, we'll see that sexism <BR>>>>in the church is even
worse than sexism outside of it, because it purports <BR>>>>to have the
stamp of approval of the One who proclaimed through Paul that
<BR>>>>"there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
neither male <BR>>>>nor female, for you are all one in Christ
Jesus." (Gal. 3:28) Christ <BR>>>>came to reverse the
effects of the Fall, not to make sure that its more <BR>>>>odious
manifestations continue in robust display. I'm sure many Kirk
<BR>>>>women disagree with me, and that's fine. But freedom in
Christ can never <BR>>>>be diminished by the men around us, and those
men who attempt to curtail <BR>>>>the abundant life of women in Christ
will have much to answer for.<BR>>><BR>>>Keely is again spot
on. According to Genesis 3:16, "To the woman, He said, <BR>>>'I will
greatly increase your pangs in childbearing, in pain you shall <BR>>>bring
forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he
<BR>>>will rule over you.'" Woman's submission to man is a
punishment for <BR>>>Original Sin. What it is not is the divine
ideal (Eden), and it is not a <BR>>>Biblical reflection of biological
determinism. To answer Michael's <BR>>>observation re: Doug's pilot
parable, I would suggest that biological <BR>>>determinism is not a road
any Christian theologian really wants to travel. <BR>>>How does the
praying mantis fit into the divine order? After mating, the
<BR>>>male makes a lovely dinner for the female -- husband a la
mode. And among <BR>>>arachnids? Devouring hubby is not
uncommon. Drones serve no purpose <BR>>>beyond mating; when they're
done, their wings fall off and they die. In <BR>>>prides of lions,
flocks of chickens, herds of deer -- only one male is
<BR>>>required. I have ten happy hens and two roosters. The
thing is, I don't <BR>>>need two roosters, so guess who's coming to
dinner? Foghorn Leghorn.<BR>>><BR>>>Further, if the natural
world reflects God's will, then how does Michael <BR>>>(or, for that
matter, Doug) explain the more than 300 species that engage <BR>>>in
homosexual behavior? From penguins to dolphins to bonobo monkeys,
<BR>>>homosexual behavior is quite common. In nature, homosexual
behavior is <BR>>>good, clean fun. Brokeback Mountain? Try
Brokeback Zoo.<BR>>><BR>>>[This might sound odd coming from a
lesbian, but I don't think human males <BR>>>are superfluous to
requirements. I like men; I have many, many male <BR>>>friends with
whom I enjoy spending time -- time free of any silly <BR>>>flirtations,
sexual tension, or wifely jealousy. It's great! I do believe
<BR>>>that I like men, genuinely like them, better than do many straight
married <BR>>>women. Men are good fun, and I've found that they're
usually willing to <BR>>>lend you their truck or their chain-saw or their
snow-blower. Yay men! <BR>>>And yay butch
lesbians!]<BR>>><BR>>>To argue that women are biologically (or
Biblically) unfit for certain jobs <BR>>>like fighter pilot -- well,
nonsense. Sexual dimorphism has very little <BR>>>meaning in a
modern technological society. No man, I don't care how big or
<BR>>>macho he is, has ever been a match hand-to-paw for a polar bear, a
tiger, <BR>>>or even a determined Doberman. Why is humankind on top
of the food chain? <BR>>>Because we're smart; because we're
big-brained tool users, male and female <BR>>>alike. To limit just
over half of your population to kinder, kirke, kuche <BR>>>simply because
they are born female (and because you are a misogynist) is <BR>>>not only
a waste, it's an abomination.<BR>>><BR>>>Joan Opyr/Auntie
Establishment<BR>>>www.joanopyr.com<BR>>><BR>>>_____________________________________________________<BR>>>List
services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
<BR>>>communities of the Palouse since
1994.
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size=4>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT size=4>
<BR>>>
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<BR>>
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