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<DIV><FONT size=4>While we are all exchanging warmth and fuzzies and lecturing
each other about conflict and nastiness, we need also to remember that strife
and incivility do have useful and positive consequences.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>For those old enough to remember here are three examples where
not only did a certain amount of strife and nastiness help improve matters
greatly, but such improvement would probably not happened without that strife
and nastiness:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>1. The civil rights struggle (and continuing
struggle) for black Americans and other minorities (wherefrom which struggle we
all benefit).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>2. The bringing to an end of the Viet Nam
War,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>3. The continuing struggle to bring fairness
and justice to the lives of migrant farm workers.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Of course there are places where strife and nastiness can be
more counter-productive than productive. But whenever one enters public
debate, one can expect to be called a lot of unpleasant things. [But no
one should expect to suffer vandalism merely for expressing their
opinion.] I have noticed that strife and nastiness is amplified by
parties playing fast and loose with facts or by trying to impose their will by
using references based on superstition and ignorance. I can say
that I am particularly personally angered by hypocrisy and dishonesty, and I
sometimes am very nasty and graphic whenever I think such occurs; I make
no apology for those posts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Once nastiness starts, it usually escalates. However, I
know from off list messages from people that I do not personally know that many
V 2020 posters/lurkers <STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff size=6>enjoy</FONT></STRONG>
certain kinds of sharply strident/nasty posts whether they be satirical, whether
they point out facts stridently, or whether they are cleverly humorous (directly
or in subtext).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>As for Mr. Crabtree, he entitled to his opinions and entitled
to express them any way he feels. While I think he is short of a few
relevant facts on the CBD issue, I am not convinced that he is being dishonest
in his opinions at this point. I have patronized his business for many
years and know that he strives to give satisfaction and a fair
exchange.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>As for civility/nastiness, all of us can learn from
experience, and then need to personally decide when they are the most
effective tools and how to use those tools for bringing about change.
The nastiness in the world of debate does not bother me; but dishonesty and
hypocrisy (especially religious/political hypocrisy) does.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joanopyr@earthlink.net href="mailto:joanopyr@earthlink.net">Joan
Opyr</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Phil, Tom, and
Filson clothes (say what?)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>On 17 Dec 2005, at 17:21, Phil Nisbet wrote:<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>For the list<BR><BR>The late posting of a comment I made prior
to my appology to Tom Hanson seems to be keeping this thread alive. That is
unfortunate.<BR><BR>As I have noted to SFC Hanson, his service even had it
been solely as a clerk typist would have been noble. The fact that he pulled
10 years as an NCO at squad and platoon level in the infantry says much for
his spirit of service. There is no less thanked and more deserving of praise
occupation than small unit infantry leader. Its a tough job to do when you
are young and spry and take exceptional intestinal fortitude to do when you
are middle aged.<BR><BR>Phil Nisbet<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Phil has apologized,
Tom has accepted, and so, this thread should end. But first . . . <BR><BR>I've
got say, along with Keely, that the peaceful resolution of this exchange is
truly exemplary. I've known Tom for a long time; he's a decent and honorable
man who loves this community and the University of Idaho, and he is willing to
go to the mat for both. I've only recently come to know Phil via offlist email
exchanges and his kind sharing of Jewish books, music, and theology. Phil has
promised to write a New West piece on Mike Wendt's Pottery down in Lewiston
that I am eager to read. (No pressure or anything, Phil . . . but now that
I've made this news public, others will be looking for your piece and, well .
. . aren't editors sneaky? Ha!)<BR><BR>Now for something completely different.
I just bought a pair of Filson double-tin cloth hunting pants. I bought them
from Ebay, thus saving myself a bundle, but unfortunately, they're unhemmed.
The inseam must be 36 inches long. I need a 31. Is there anyone around here
who can/will hem a pair of Filson's? Rose won't do it -- it might break her
Pfaff sewing machine, which she loves more than I love Steve McQueen, and
that's going some. I had thought of asking Peck's, but someone told me that
they only sew leather. In the past, I would have called Creighton's, but that,
sadly, is now kaput. Any advice from you Filson-wearing hunters (and/or sewing
folk) would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to have to mail these to
Seattle; I'd much rather have the work done locally.<BR><BR>BTW, appropo of
nothing, I love Filson. I have a Filson hat and a Filson coat and now these
trousers, which are oil-finished shelter cloth, designed to keep my backside
dry when I'm out deer hunting. All are made in Seattle by a really great
company. Filson clothing is built to last -- coats are handed down generation
to generation. I bought my coat from a guy on Ebay who said he'd gotten it as
a present some twenty years ago and was only selling it because he'd come to
the reluctant conclusion that he'd never be a medium again -- not in this
lifetime, anyway.<?/bigger><BR><BR><?bigger>Joan Opyr/Auntie
Establishment<BR>www.joanopyr.com<?/bigger><?fontfamily><?param Helvetica><BR><?/fontfamily><BR>
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