<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">All:<BR>
<BR>
I understand the possible annoyance of<BR>
posting of a discussion that appears to only involve two people who<BR>
use the list for a "private" debate or dialog on a subject many would<BR>
argue is not related to local issues.<BR>
<BR>
But I think it is hard to know what the whole list really thinks about these <BR>
cases, and that perhaps there are some who gain something from such <BR>
discussions. And based on a principle of allowing freedom of speech, and <BR>
avoiding the chilling effect of complaining about post content (the list serve<BR>
police!), I think it best to not complain about discussions, unless they become<BR>
"egregious." If the induction discussion, a discussion that recently received<BR>
complaints, involved 10 posts a day between only two people, this would be <BR>
egregious, I think. <BR>
<BR>
But an occasional back and forth on this<BR>
issue I find of no harm. Someone might actually be prompted to think<BR>
about the issues presented and enjoy the dialog. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, Vision2020 cannot reasonably become an<BR>
educational list serve on any and all subjects. If ten discussions on <BR>
abstract or difficult subjects that can be argued are unrelated to the local <BR>
community were all going at once, this would be perhaps <BR>
unmanageable. But ten detailed discussions going all at once on various aspects <BR>
of local zoning code, property tax law, animal control, funding of <BR>
local law enforcement or jails, and so forth, many might also find unmanageable. <BR>
<BR>
The list finds its own balance in these matters, eventually, it seems to me, though this <BR>
process can appear rather imbalanced!<BR>
<BR>
No one is "forced" to read a conversation, at least when the subject headings<BR>
are kept matching the post content. Many conversations involve posts I<BR>
never open to read, when I find the subject heading of no interest. I<BR>
do not think it an accurate use of language to call post deletion<BR>
"forcing" a conversation on someone. Deleting posts that someone finds of no<BR>
interest is just a normal part of being a list serve member.<BR>
<BR>
I do not think it wise to establish a "policy" that<BR>
just because a few people complain about a list topic, and no one else<BR>
defends the topic on-list, then the discussion on-list should end. <BR>
I have received complaints, posted on Vision2020, about some <BR>
of my posts subjects, then received private<BR>
responses from list serve members indicating they approved of my post<BR>
that received the complaints, though the list serve members in this case<BR>
did not post their approval to the list, for whatever reason.<BR>
<BR>
Keeping content of posts matching post subject heading is a list<BR>
etiquette voluntary rule that I think should be emphasized more. The<BR>
most annoying list conduct I have experienced by far is opening a post<BR>
thinking it is on a certain topic based on the subject heading, only<BR>
to find content of an entirely different nature. This wastes my time, given <BR>
it requires opening the post and starting to read,<BR>
and frankly I feel deceived by this conduct, though sometimes no doubt <BR>
it is an unintentional deception.<BR>
<BR>
Again I repeat, deleting the conversations I find of no interest, when the <BR>
subject heading matches the post content, is just a normal part of managing<BR>
a list serve, something unavoidable no matter what rules regulate the<BR>
list. Some of the most popular list serve conversations that no one<BR>
complains about seem to me unsuitable for the list, but I do not complain: <BR>
live and let live, I guess, is my feeling on this.<BR>
<BR>
Part of the problem with the disagreement on the appropriateness of list topics<BR>
involves the lack of clear agreement as to what Vision2020 is for. If we adopt a <BR>
strict interpretation of the Vision2020 mission statement, many post topics that <BR>
are common and do not generate complaints would need to stop! This seems <BR>
quite impossible given the unmoderated nature of the list, and the fact the <BR>
disagreement on what Vision2020 is for is so widespread.<BR>
<BR>
But consider the option of managing the Vision2020 list serve via a<BR>
dedicated e-mail account that removes the need to delete. I have been<BR>
doing this for about a year or so, using my AOL account only for<BR>
Vision2020. I do not delete posts. AOL will do that for me eventually.<BR>
I read what posts I find of interest, respond and/or debate as I wish, and don't<BR>
worry about the rest. <BR>
<BR>
With an open unmoderated list serve, no matter what attempts are made<BR>
to achieve consensus on list rules that everyone will follow, there<BR>
are going to be discussions that many do not want to waste time with,<BR>
so using this strategy of a dedicated e-mail account that does not<BR>
require deletion, seems to me like a good solution.<BR>
<BR>
As this Vision2020 post I forward below indicates, at least one<BR>
list serve member agreed with the idea I presented above. Surprisingly,<BR>
I have not received one request to open a free 2.5 gig storage G-mail<BR>
account (an account that would not require deletion of posts because<BR>
of the huge free storage), based on my offer on Vision2020:<BR>
<BR>
> Subj: Re: [Vision2020] Let Induction Discussion Continue Onlist--or<BR>
> not Date: 11/21/2005 7:14:19 PM Pacific Standard Time From:<BR>
> deco@moscow.com To: vision2020@moscow.com Sent from the Internet<BR>
> (Details) <BR>
> <BR>
> This is a unmoderated forum. If some are not interested in a <BR>
> thread/subject they need not pursue it. <BR>
> <BR>
> Some threads are more complex than others. Therefore, the posts<BR>
> discussing them will be longer and more complex. Ted Moffett<BR>
> suggested a nice way for a V 2020er to avoid downloading long posts<BR>
> (and other emails): Get a free 2+ gigabyte email account at Google<BR>
> Mail (Gmail) and only download to your browser those posts/emails that<BR>
> interest you. The storage of these emails remains at Google and not<BR>
> on your machine. If any one needs special instructions on how to get<BR>
> a Gmail account, please send me your email address and I will see that<BR>
> Gmail sends you an enrollment invitation.<BR>
> <BR>
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR>
> deco@moscow.com<BR>
> -------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Again, anyone wishing to receive an invitation to G-mail, send a request to the return e-mail address from which this e-mail originates, with only "G-mail" in the subject heading. I can send an invitation, though I may cancel my AOL account soon (too expensive!).<BR>
<BR>
Ted Moffett <BR>
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