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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am so disappointed in our current closed minds.
We have so many more choices in education and so many want to shut off their
minds to any reaching of new thought. Some of you categorize so you
don't have to think out of our little box and I keep looking for the pope to
send the inquisition to keep us in line. It can go both ways ya
know!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I liked what this site said, if you don't
think the thought police will be around to see if you read it!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://worldmag.com/displayarticle.cfm?id=11145">http://worldmag.com/displayarticle.cfm?id=11145</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=Tbertruss@aol.com
href="mailto:Tbertruss@aol.com">Tbertruss@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=metzler@moscow.com
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">metzler@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, November 06, 2005 4:46
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Mandating Religion
In Science Class</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT lang=0 face=Arial size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">Michael et. al.<BR><BR>The
subject heading indicates the focus of this post. I am not referencing
the discussion of Plantinga or Scott, because the orientation of this
discussion was not kept focused on the current court battle and central issue
of control of the science curriculum by religious interests.<BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff"><BR><A
href="http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/IDpa.html">http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/IDpa.html</A><BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Verdana color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">"The members of this school
board have made their own religious beliefs part of the high school's science
curriculum," said Eric Rothschild, a partner at Pepper Hamilton, a law firm
headquartered in Philadelphia. "This policy is not only
unconstitutional, it is bad science."<BR><BR>Michael wrote</FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Verdana color=#000000 size=2
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10" BACK="#ffffff">:<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Verdana color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">I can understand trying to nuance
how these points of view are communicated, but requiring that the point of
view of half the American populace not BE ALLOWED “in the classroom” is
nothing short of statist mind control. How’s that for a controversial
statement!<BR>------------------------------------<BR><BR>Are you
joking...? Must be! You could find numerous points of view that
half the population follow that may not be included in numerous classes.
So what? Maybe half the music students in Music Appreciation want the
course to focus entirely on Madonna, Britney Spears, Rap, Hip Hop and
Metal. Does that mean the academic curriculum should drop Mozart and
Beethoven? Maybe half the population believes in astrology, UFOs and
faith healing? Does this mean science and medicine classes must teach
these "theories" as though they are legitimate science?<BR><BR>No is
attempting to require what you state above, at least no one I have heard
about. Students, even the teacher, may discuss Intelligent
Design/Creationism informally in science classes. The issue is whether
it should be mandated as a formal part of the science curriculum. In
fact, the "mind control" is coming from those seeking to teach religion in
science classes, however cleverly disguised as an open minded investigation of
alternative theories of the origins of the universe or life. <BR><BR>If
this religious agenda is successful, we could see Intelligent
Design/Creationism mandated to be taught as "science" in science classrooms
everywhere, on an equal par with evolutionary science, or if not perfectly
equal, with the goal to imply that to believe in Intelligent
Design/Creationism is somehow just as scientific a view as to understand
evolutionary science. Imagine if it was mandated that any class (in
public schools, including public universities) teaching anything about the
Bible must include statements from the world of science that contradict the
Bible?<BR><BR>This battle is about legally requiring the formal curriculum of
science to include nonscientific theories, based on the desires of believers
in certain religions to undermine the academic independence of science as a
discipline to determine what is or is not an accepted theory of science, based
on the methodology of this discipline.<BR><BR>Michael wrote:<BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">So with all this in consideration,
it would not seem silly to include some subject matter on different
metaphysical frameworks in the science classroom. I think there are
other complicated considerations like this one, but this one example should
suffice for now. Because of this, I don't think it is necessary to call
Creationism a 'science,' as such, outside of its potentially potent ability to
inform scientific hypothesis formation-just as does the broader evolutionary
narrative that most scientists currently assume.
<BR>------------------------<BR><BR>The comments above do not directly
and honestly face what is occurring in this debate. You write "...it
would not seem silly to include some subject matter on different metaphysical
frameworks in the science classroom." There are numerous science
teachers who indeed would feel very silly, and resentful, at being required by
law to teach as "science" in biology class the theories of Intelligent
Design/Creationism, theories which the teachers in question do not believe are
legitimate science. And many mainstream scientists involved with and
observing this legal battle are far beyond thinking it "silly," they are, to
quote a lawyer advocating for this control over science curriculum,
"worried."<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/12732377.htm">http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/12732377.htm</A><BR><BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">Richard Thompson, chief counsel
for the Christian law firm from Michigan that is defending the Dover school
board, said of his opponents, "If they lose in Dover, they're worried they
will start to see these kind of [efforts] all over the place. And I think
they're right." </FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face=Arial color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"
BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4 FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14"
BACK="#ffffff"><BR>Michael writes:<BR><BR>"I don't think it is necessary to
call Creationism a 'science,' ..." <BR><BR>What does this mean? This
statement does not clarify whether you think it should be mandated that
Intelligent Design/Creationism be taught as a formal part of the science
curriculum, nor does it pin down whether you think any Intelligent
Design/Creationism theories are scientific theories, with the same status as a
theory of science as the theory of evolution.<BR><BR>Michael
wrote:<BR><BR>Certainly, in a classroom where ‘origins’ of human live are
being discussed, it is going to be relevant and interesting for everybody to
talk about the two dominant yet competing points of view (whether it is an
intro to biology or intro to
ethics). <BR>----------------------<BR><BR>What is appropriate for formal
academic curriculum in an ethics course is quite different from that for a
science class. Ethics is not a science. You are too intelligent
and educated not to understand the difference, so your casual lumping of
ethics and science into one basket in this statement is astounding.
<BR><BR>Unless a scientist can fulfill the demand for a scientific theory of
Intelligent Design/Creationism that can be subjected to the methodology of
science sufficient to make the theory, with empirical investigations,
publishable in a legitimate scientific journal as serious science, just as
theories about the Big Bang origins of our universe are published as
legitimate science, I will continue to believe that Intelligent
Design/Creationism involves speculative theories that have not achieved enough
empirical validation and/or logical/mathematical sense, according to the
standards of scientific methodology, to be taught as science, and thus should
not be mandated to be taught in science classrooms.<BR><BR>Michael
wrote:</FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14"
BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4 FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14"
BACK="#ffffff"><BR>Is it important that the Christian View be inherently
'scientific' or is it sufficient that the Christian View be merely
"tenable"and "relating to science?"
<BR>----------------------------<BR><BR>I already answered this question
indirectly. Any theory of Intelligent Design/Creationism, to be taught
as science , should fulfill the standards for a scientific theory, that any
theory is subjected to in the discipline of science.<BR><BR>Perhaps you'd like
to express your stand, if you have one, on the current legal battle, which may
go to the US Supreme Court, on what must be mandated to be taught in science
classrooms regarding Intelligent Design/Creationism?<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff"><BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">This debate is about the
independence of the academic discipline of science to pursue truth according
to the standards of scientific methodology. I do not want to return to
the days when what is taught in science classrooms is controlled by a
religious agenda, no matter what religion.<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/12732377.htm">http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/living/religion/12732377.htm</A><BR><BR></FONT><FONT
lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">"We're very, very concerned
about it," said Alan I. Leshner, chief executive officer of the American
Association for the Advancement of Science, the world's largest general
scientific society. "There are national implications, of course. This is part
of an ongoing movement to bring religion into the science classroom."
<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0 style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face=Arial
color=#000000 size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" PTSIZE="10"
BACK="#ffffff">-----------------------<BR></FONT><FONT lang=0
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=4
FAMILY="SERIF" PTSIZE="14" BACK="#ffffff">Ted Moffett<BR></FONT>
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