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<DIV><FONT size=4>Michael,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I am sorry if you feel I have sullied you.
However, that you have been in this area for any length of time and
claim not to be aware of the cites I gave from <EM>Southern
Slavery: As It Was</EM> greatly strains both your credibility and
raises serious questions about your connection to the real
world.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>More disturbing, and quite frankly, gives me great concern for
your future, is that you would blindly accept and assert in your message at
issue Wilson's word on the subject. A more prudent, thoughtful person
given Wilson's reputation for dishonesty would have found some way of
investigating, possibly by reading a copy of <EM>Southern Slavery: As It
Was</EM> and/or any number of local articles/letters on the subject<EM>.
</EM>I believe the public library still has a copy of Wilson's tract.
Perhaps you are familiar with the story of the Catholic Hierarchy during the
Dark Ages arguing about how many teeth there are in a horse's
mouth.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In my message today, I noted that you blindly accepted
Plantinga's word and attempted to use his apparently unresearched assertions on
a matter clearly calling for data to make your point. If this is your
normal mode of operation, you are best advised to avoid those selling stock in
silver mines, aluminum siding salespersons, and Douglas Wilson.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=metzler@moscow.com href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">Michael</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, November 04, 2005 11:08
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Slavery, Wayne,
& keely answers doug</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks for the comments <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Wayne</st1:City></st1:place>; it has been a while since I have
received such an enjoyable email--seriously. Just a few
thoughts:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Wayne</SPAN></FONT></st1:City></st1:place>
Writes:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">However, you make the claim
that:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"First, the 'not so bad' seems to be a misquote from
the Wilson/Wilkins position. I think their position would be better stated as
'not so bad as we have been told by those who won the
war'."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Such a characterization of <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>'s views is not
only fraudulently inaccurate, but deceptively oversimplified. Here are
just two quotes of many from <EM><I><FONT face="Times New Roman">Southern
Slavery: As It Was</FONT></I></EM> that are counter-examples to your above
claim:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"...slavery was a harmonious institution, one
characterized by racial affection and patriarchal
benevolence."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"...slave life was to them a life of plenty, of simple
pleasures."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Regardless of the truth or falsity of these
statements, the <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Christ
Church</st1:PersonName>/Wilson position embodying
the statements given the ordinary usage of the words therein,
can not be honestly by any stretch of the imagination described as:
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">"...not so bad as we have been told by those who won
the war"<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Me:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I have never seen a copy of <EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman">Southern Slavery: As It Was</FONT></I></EM><EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman"><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: normal">, so I cant say with
any amount of certainty whether or not my interpretation of not so bad is
perfectly consistent with its contents. I was not thinking of this
booklet when I wrote my comments. I was rather thinking of bits and pieces of
conversations, tapes of lectures, live talks, blips in sermons, and the like
for the last 9 years. Although my knowledge of what a Wilson/Wilkins
position might be on this issue might be rough and ready, it is at the same
time immune to misreading a couple statements; the overall tone, ethos, and
trajectory would be in my bones. One of the most influential experiences
I had on this issue was a series of lectures given by Wilkins about 8 years
ago in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Portland</st1:City></st1:place>; I recall some from the hosting
church community of these lectures as very critically minded, and slow to
accept some of Wilkins views. Since then, I think they have grown very
fond of him. In any case, as an innocent bystander/observer, I am fairly
certain that the general flavor of how the position has been discussed around
here for the last decade is more consistent with </SPAN></FONT></I></EM>not
so bad as we have been told by those who won the war. If this is not the
position of the Slavery As It Was, then I would be inclined to think, on the
face of it, that this booklet misrepresents the broad discussion on these
matters among us associated with <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Christ</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Church</st1:PlaceType></st1:PersonName></st1:place>. But I dont
know. If anyone has a copy of this booklet to spare, my PO Box is 8282;
I hear it has gone up in value over the last couple years. In sum, I was
merely attempting to express my own perception of the last 9 years; I was not
attempting to represent the contents of the Slavery booklet.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Wayne</SPAN></FONT></st1:City></st1:place>
Writes:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am afraid that in making such a statement you have
irrevocably destroyed your thinly disguised pose as a humble person on an
open-minded spiritual quest for all who have followed this thread. You
have now revealed to those who did not know it before that you are
a committed <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Christ Church</st1:PersonName>
Apologist/Advocate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Me:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I am very sorry if I gave the impression that I was on
some sort of open-minded spiritual quest. I did not intend to give that
impression. However, I thought I have been clear that I love Jesus and
wish to defend Classical Orthodox Christianity, which includes Moses, the
giraffes that made it on the ark, persecuted Christians of the 3<SUP>rd</SUP>
century, Augustine, medieval popes, Martin Luther, and C.S. Lewis. I
dont know why anyone would want to be an Apologist/Advocate for some local
church. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Wayne</SPAN></FONT></st1:City></st1:place>
Writes:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">But henceforth whenever you tell a lie, do not be
surprised if you are called on it, and do be surprised, depending on the
size/nature of the lie, that apt remarks about your integrity will be
made. [Your pose is also a form of dishonesty.] Further, do not be
surprised that many will consider that you are not a sincere Christian if you
continue to lie and to pose as something you are not.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hence, I think it best if you drop your pose from now
on. No one will now be fooled and it adds unnecessary words
and distractive baggage to your defense of <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Christ</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Church</st1:PlaceType></st1:PersonName></st1:place>
dogma.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Me:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I agree that lying is bad. But Im afraid you
are stuck with my pose; this is just me being me. Ive tried to change
many times, but it just keeps on coming back.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I look forward to your further comments on the nature
of induction; this was a fun subject to teach at the University for
me.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Yours,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Michael Metzler<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P>
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