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<P>Phil,</P>
<P>I continue to disagree with you in several ways. First of all, I do not read the article as saying a group of Jews were the prime movers for the war. The article talks about PNAC's support for the war; that paragraph names Cheney, Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. I may be wrong, but isn't Wolfowitz the only Jew in that group? I've never thought of PNAC as a Jewish group, though I realize that there are Jews in it; but I don't think of Harvard as a Jewish university either.<BR><BR>Second, I think you're completely mis-reading the phrase 'Bush has Israelized the entire West.' Here's the paragraph:</P>
<P>'For Bush has Israelized the entire West: We will now live in a world where crossing every border is a humiliating ordeal of searches and interrogation; where our public places are patrolled with men bearing machine guns; and where hundreds or thousands of us are subject to instant death at a moment's notice.'</P>
<P>I read this as saying the entire West now has the security issues Israel has, that we now all face the same kinds of risks, and we may all turn into the same sort of security state. And given the recent ruling on Jose Padilla, I dare say we may see our rights diminish here. I do not read this to say that Bush is waging war to turn the world into Israel, or whatever you think that phrase means. </P>
<P>I'm sure you're just employing hyperbole, but I also don't see any praise for Iraq. This sentence,</P>
<P>' Iraq was a stable secular Sunni nation that posed no threat to the security of the United States,' is one I consider factually accurate, but not one that praises Iraq.</P>
<P>You are equating criticism of Israel with being anti-Jewish, and I disagree with both you and Estrich on this. I read the Estrich article you linked, and I want to focus on this section. In the first paragraph, I guess Estrich is quoting Cindy Sheehan, and in the second she responds to the previous paragraph:</P>
<P>'"What they're saying, too, is like, it's OK for Israel to have nuclear weapons. But Iran or Syria better not get nuclear weapons. ... It's OK for Israel to occupy Palestine ... for the United States to occupy Iraq, but it's not OK for Syria to be in Lebanon. They're a bunch of (expletive) hypocrites." </P>
<P>Anyone who cannot tell the difference, in any terms, between Israel on the one hand and Syria and Iran on the other is not someone who, as my grandmother would put it, is "good for the Jews" -- or for the country, I'd like to add.'</P>
<P>I hope this doesn't make me anti-Semitic, because then I'll have to talk about my Jewish friends and my recent ethnic meals, and I can add that I like all kinds of white, brown and black people and say I'm not racist, BUT, Isn't she right?</P>
<P>Estrich is not addressing the issue of hypocricy that Sheehan is raising in her quote. I don't think it's anti-Semitic to point that hypocrisy out. We point out Iran's nuclear policy, but are we about to insist inspectors go to Israel? No, we're not. </P>
<P>I do not think criticism of Israel should be equated with being anti-Jewish, because they're not the same. There's no monolithic Jewish opinion about Israel's foreign or domestic policies. Opposing Sharon does not make me anti-Jewish; it means in part I agree with a bunch of Israelis whose candidate lost the last election. Hey, I'm in the same company here.</P>
<P>I can't stand Tony Blair, but that doesn't make me anti-British. (It does make me anti-Briton, Tony being that particular guy.) And if people decided to call me that, I'd have to assume that they would rather label me than discuss the ideas I'm trying to put forward.</P>
<P>That article did not claim the war was the result of a vast Jewish conspiracy. I think we would do better discussing what it does say, because it describes the state that's being created, and the problems we now face.</P>
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<DIV></DIV><FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">Sunil
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<DIV></DIV>From: <I>"Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1@hotmail.com></I><BR>To: <I>sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</I><BR>CC: <I>vision2020@moscow.com</I><BR>Subject: <I>RE: [Vision2020] Well Goosh Ralph</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 09:27:44 -0700</I><BR>>Sunil<BR>><BR>>Some people may have supported the war in Iraq because the moon is <BR>>made of cheddar cheese, but that would not justify a screed <BR>>condemning Wisconsin or claims it was a Wisconsonian plot to take <BR>>over the world.<BR>>the difference, in any terms, between Israel on the one hand and Syria and Iran on the other is not someone who, as my grandmother would put it, is "good for the Jews" -- or for the country, I'd like to add.
<P>I have been speaking to Jewish groups around the nation</P><BR>>The letter in question makes very specific claims, that a group of <BR>>Jews were the prime movers in a War, that they did so not to benefit <BR>>the United States, but to Israelize the Western World and that they <BR>>overthrew a nice sweet and sunny secular government to accomplish <BR>>that goal. As you note, that was not the prime mover in the <BR>>equation for moving on Iraq, making any claim that the war is all <BR>>about Jewish plots out for what it is, Anti-Semitism pure and <BR>>simple.<BR>><BR>>As I noted, David Duke and the Neo-Nazis make similar claims to that <BR>>obviously held by the author of the piece. When a person’s views <BR>>are synchronous with virulent anti-Semites, I do not think it’s a <BR>>stretch to suggest that their ideas are
motivated by something other <BR>>than scholarly intent.<BR>><BR>>Discussing the rest of the issues involved in war in Iraq is a <BR>>worthy goal. Trying not only to determine where we went wrong, but <BR>>also where we go from here considering the results on the ground, is <BR>>something we need to do as a nation and as a community. But as a <BR>>community we need to condemn attempts to claim that the war is a <BR>>vast Jewish Conspiracy or that Israel is its casus belli.<BR>><BR>>As I note, read Susan Estrich on the subject of blaming Israel for <BR>>Iraq. http://www.tzemach.org/fyi/docs/20050824estrich.htm She is <BR>>hardly some evile Neo-Con and holds views similar to many in our <BR>>community with regard to Iraq, but can see through the role that <BR>>Anti-Semites are now playing in the Peace
Movement.<BR>><BR>>Phil Nisbet<BR>><BR>>_________________________________________________________________<BR>>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's <BR>>FREE! <BR>>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/<BR>><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div></html>