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<DIV><FONT size=4>Donovan writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"If we are to take your literal interpretation of his words, churches would
not have mass and worship, which is public prayer."<BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Gee, Donovan, maybe you are finally catching on.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>There have been and are many scholars who have argued that
Jesus intended to make belief in God much, much more private than it was in
his times. He certainly appeared to be crusading not only for certain
ethical beliefs but against the corruption and hypocrisy of the organized church
of his times.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>These scholars argue that Jesus believed that faith should
be spread person to person and <FONT color=#ff0000>that organizing faith
leads to corruption, hypocrisy, and divisiveness.</FONT> There is no
doubt what-so-ever that the last phrase of the last sentence is empirically
true.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Of course we do not know what Jesus actually said let alone
why he said it. The Jesus Seminar composed of many very prominent
Christian scholars and theologians have concluded that Jesus did not say about
85% of the things attributed to him in the bible.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Public officials ought be making their decisions on the best
available information not on untestable ignorance and superstition driven by
fear, greed, and the egomaniacal, megalomaniacal need to control. Instead
of praying, they might spend that time educating themselves more completely
about the matters they with. If they or their constituents need to pray
like a junkie needs a fix, they can <FONT size=6><STRONG>at any
time</STRONG></FONT> pray silently. No one, not even you Donavan, can
abridge their freedom to do so.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4>From: "Donovan Arnold" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com"><FONT
size=4>donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>To: "Chasuk" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com"><FONT size=4>chasuk@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT
size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Cc: <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
size=4>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>>; "Sunil Ramalingam"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><FONT
size=4>sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT size=4>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 11:17 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public prayer on public
money</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT size=4>> Chas,<BR>> <BR>> I do
not think that is what Christ was getting at.<BR>> Christ prayed in public
and with others all the time,<BR>> and others prayed with him in
public.<BR>> <BR>> If you read the previous passage you see that
Christ<BR>> in this passage was talking about people that claimed<BR>> to
be Holy and did prayer and gave only in the public<BR>> eye to gain praise
from other men, not from God. He is<BR>> saying pray for God's praise, and
give for God's<BR>> praise, do not pray and give for man's praise.<BR>>
<BR>> If we are to take your literal interpretation of his<BR>> words,
churches would not have mass and worship, which<BR>> is public prayer. Not to
mention most people at that<BR>> time did not have doors on their rooms, just
the door<BR>> to the outside of the house.<BR>> <BR>> But more
importantly, this is not about one religion,<BR>> this is about allowing
people to preform a task that<BR>> is important to their spiritual and
emotional well<BR>> being that does no harm to anyone else. <BR>> <BR>>
Donovan J Arnold<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> --- Chasuk <</FONT><A
href="mailto:chasuk@gmail.com"><FONT size=4>chasuk@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT
size=4>> wrote:<BR>> <BR>>> First, a preface: I am not a
Christian. I might<BR>>> truthfully be<BR>>> considered a
recovering ex-Christian. When I was a<BR>>> Christian, I<BR>>>
prayed frequently, and I found it beneficial. <BR>>> However, I
always<BR>>> minded Jesus's own words regarding prayer:<BR>>>
<BR>>> "And when you pray, you must not be like the<BR>>>
hypocrites; for they love<BR>>> to stand and pray in the synagogues and at
the<BR>>> street corners, that<BR>>> they may be seen by men. Truly,
I say to you, they<BR>>> have received their<BR>>> reward. But when
you pray, go into your room and<BR>>> shut the door and<BR>>> pray
to your Father who is in secret; and your<BR>>> Father who sees
in<BR>>> secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:5-6 RSV)<BR>>>
<BR>>> I haven't had time to read every message in this<BR>>>
thread, so I<BR>>> apologize if this quote is yet another reiteration.
<BR>>> Still, I would<BR>>> hope that the founder of Christianity's
word are<BR>>> relevant -- and we<BR>>> are talking about Christian
prayer, realistically --<BR>>> so what else<BR>>> needs to be
said?<BR>>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
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size=4>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs</FONT></A><FONT size=4> <BR>> <BR>>
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