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<DIV>Joan wrote:</DIV>
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<DIV>"And when it comes to polygamy, or female genital mutilation, or smoking aboriginal <SPAN class=correction id="">hallucinogens</SPAN>, some religious practices are clearly abridged even on private property." </DIV>
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<DIV>Peyote use in religious ceremonies by recognized Native American members of some tribes is now legal in the USA. Someone posing as a Native American recently was under scrutiny for involvement with peyote, which would be illegal if they were not a recognized member of the Native American tribes who are allowed to use peyote for Native American religious ceremonies. Read content at the link below:</DIV>
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<DIV>Ted wrote on Vision2020 7/27/05:<BR><FONT face=Arial> <BR></FONT><A href="http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg25.htm" target=_blank><U><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg25.htm</FONT></U></A><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial>It is well known that in fact religious ceremonial use of certain quite otherwise illegal drugs is allowed with a religious exemption, as you can read at the web link above. I am sure that your use of alcohol in the Jewish religion for ceremonial use by minors can be or already is protected by the guarantee of religious freedom that our big bad evil government and the US Constitution provides.</FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ted <SPAN class=correction id="">Moffett</SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><BR></DIV> <BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Joan <SPAN class=correction id="">Opyr</SPAN> <<SPAN class=correction id="">joanopyr</SPAN>@earthlink.net><BR>To: <SPAN class=correction id="">Kai</SPAN> <SPAN class=correction id="">Eiselein</SPAN> <editor@lataheagle.com><BR><SPAN class=correction id="">Cc</SPAN>: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Sent: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 12:58:40 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Separation Of Church & State<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=AOLPlainTextBody id=AOLMsgPart_0_d462ec10-a1c9-4628-b56b-3d3234264559>On Aug 1, 2005, at 12:19 PM, Kai Eiselein wrote: <BR> <BR>> How about we ban the yearly pow wow at the dome? After all that is <BR>> religious, as well, isn't it? <BR>> Polygamy? I don't care, frankly. I DO however have a problem with 13 > year <BR>> females getting married against their will. Practices which have been > well <BR>> documented over the past few years. And which have been done by ALL of > the <BR>> groups you mentioned, Joan. <BR>> Should we allow the practice of mutilating female <SPAN class=correction id="">genetalia</SPAN>, since it > has a <BR>> religious facet? It's a "cultural norm". Whether <SPAN class=correction id="">religous</SPAN> or secular, > every <BR>> society has its "cultural norm", in which people function. Western > norms do <BR>> not allow polygamy, human sacrifice, <SPAN class=correction id="">yadayadyada</SPAN>. And even religions > must <BR>> stay within those <SPAN class=correction id="">boundries</SPAN>. Do Jews <SPAN class=correction id="">regulary</SPAN> sacrifice animals > anymore? If <BR>> not, why not? What changed? <BR> <BR>You're making my point for me here, Kai. I am NOT against renting the <SPAN class=correction id="">Kibbie</SPAN> Dome to Doug Wilson and Christ Church. I am simply pointing out that there is a conflict between <SPAN class=correction id="">Doug's</SPAN> stated religious practice (serving communion wine to minors) and state law. His plans for "Worship in the Dome" put the University in an awkward position, to say the least, and the frenetic <SPAN class=correction id="">blogging</SPAN> that's been taking place on <A href="http://dougwils.com" target=_blank>http://dougwils.com</A> and <A href="http://right-mind.us" target=_blank>http://right-mind.us</A> suggests that this awkwardness (or, rather, provocation) was deliberate. <BR> <BR>Now, it just so happens that I know a little something about student Pow <SPAN class=correction id="">Wows</SPAN> held at the <SPAN class=correction id="">Kibbie</SPAN>; I've attended many. Now here's a question for you, <SPAN class=correction id="">Nelly</SPAN> Boots -- did you know that the <SPAN class=correction id="">UI</SPAN> Native American student group was charged $10,000 to use the <SPAN class=correction id="">Kibbie</SPAN> for its one night Pow Wow last year, while Doug and Christ Church are only being charged $750 per day? What's going on here, do you suppose? Some of that religious discrimination you claim to be so worried about? <BR> <BR>I, too, have a problem with children being married, whether it's against their will down in Southern Idaho, or by their own free choice to Jerry Lee Lewis. I have a problem with female genital mutilation. I have a problem with many, many religious practices: two young men, ages 15 and 16, were stoned to death in Iran recently for being gay. <SPAN class=correction id="">Homosexuality</SPAN> is a violation of <SPAN class=correction id="">Sharia</SPAN>, a fundamentalist interpretation of Islamic law. You can bet your sweet <SPAN class=correction id="">bippie</SPAN> that I have a problem with that. <BR> <BR>What I am asking you is to answer, Kai, are the very questions you pose above. What religious practices should be tolerated on secular state property? Get your thoughts in order before you respond because this is not an easy question. Have a look at some of the case law regarding religious practices in prison. Some years back, <SPAN class=correction id="">Orrin</SPAN> Hatch and other religious conservatives co-sponsored a freedom of religion law, granting prisoners the right to practice their faiths freely in our penitentiary system. I think Hatch and company imagined that this would serve by and large to "bring people to Jesus." It's done that, no doubt; it's also brought people to the Nation of Islam, to Judaism, to Native American traditional religions, and to a host of other religious practices that <SPAN class=correction id="">Orrin</SPAN> Hatch clearly never considered. (<SPAN class=correction id="">Orrin</SPAN> Hatch thinks a lot like my Southern Baptist grandmother, who believes that allowing the return of prayer to public schools would only mean allowing Christian prayer. Why? Because that's the only kind of prayer she knows. She's not picturing an <SPAN class=correction id="">Imam</SPAN> or a Shaman delivering the commencement prayer at my alma mater, William G. <SPAN class=correction id="">Enloe</SPAN> High School. If that were to happen, she'd be out marching in the streets in protest faster than you could say <SPAN class=correction id="">Madelyn</SPAN> Murray O'Hare.) <BR> <BR>Again, I do not oppose renting <SPAN class=correction id="">UI</SPAN> or any other state property to religious groups for religious worship. I do think, however, that religious groups inevitably compromise their religious practice by moving from private to public property. And when it comes to polygamy, or female genital mutilation, or smoking aboriginal <SPAN class=correction id="">hallucinogens</SPAN>, some religious practices are clearly abridged even on private property. <BR> <BR>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment <BR><A href="http://www.auntie-establishment.com" target=_blank>www.auntie-establishment.com</A> <BR> <BR><SPAN class=correction id="">PS</SPAN>: I'm a Reform Jew. Burnt sacrifices no longer make a pleasing smell unto the Lord, and even if they did, I wouldn't expect Tim White or the <SPAN class=correction id="">UI</SPAN> Administration to allow me to set fire to a sheep in the <SPAN class=correction id="">Kibbie</SPAN> Dome. <BR> <BR>_____________________________________________________ <BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the <SPAN class=correction id="">Palouse</SPAN> since 1994. <A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank>http://www.fsr.net</A> <A href="mailto:Vision2020%40moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A> <BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ <BR></DIV><!-- end of AOLMsgPart_0_d462ec10-a1c9-4628-b56b-3d3234264559 --></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>