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Donovan,<br>
<br>
You are implying that you cannot judge a group by its leader. I agree
with this in most cases (I certainly wouldn't want to be judged as an
American by the actions of our president).<br>
<br>
I'm new to Vision2020, but after seeing the controversy around Christ
Church I was intrigued and tried to find all the information I could
about them. From reading both their websites and the others I have seen
reference to on V2020, it seems to me that Doug Wilson IS Christ
Church, in as far as his doctrines are the church's doctrines, and he
controls the actions and belief structure of his church.<br>
<br>
However, being relatively uneducated about the subject, my comments are
submitted in humility.<br>
<br>
But I will say this with conviction:<br>
<br>
You can, and should, hold members of an organization responsible for
the codified belief structure and even the actions of that organization
and its leaders, unless they are a voice of dissent during the time
those actions took place, or at least afterward.<br>
<br>
Any kirkers who do not decry any exposed sins of their pastor are
supporting them.<br>
<br>
<br>
Steven Simmons<br>
<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid20050529155532.20900.qmail@web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Mr. Hansen,
First, thank you for correcting my error in referring
Mr. Wilson as having a degree he did not earn.
However, Mr. Wilson's level of educational attainment
has nothing to do with my arguments.
Second, I do believe that Dr. Gier has insulted the
members of Christ Church in his arguments comparing
the Taliban to the members of Christ Church. Which is
why he got himself in hot water on Mr. Courtney's
Blog.
Finally, I never said that Mr. Wilson should not be
held to higher moral standards of scrutiny than others
in the church. My point, and made clear before you
twisted it, was that you cannot judge all members of
the church by the sins of their pastor.
Donovan J Arnold
--- Tom Hansen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><thansen@moscow.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Arnold -
WOW!
Where do I begin?
Let's examine just a couple of your quotes for now,
ok?
" . . . it seems your real disagreement is with Dr.
Wilson not NSA or Christ
Church."
Question: What qualifies Doug Wilson to prefix his
name with "Dr."?
Wilson, Douglas J., M.A., Member, Board of Trustees
and Senior Fellow, 1994-
M.A. in Philosophy, University of Idaho, 1977
B.A. in Classical Studies, University of Idaho, 1988
B.A. in Philosophy, University of Idaho, 1977
Copied and pasted from the NSA Faculty page at:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nsa.edu/community/faculty.html">http://www.nsa.edu/community/faculty.html</a>
"It really seems counterproductive to attack
hundreds of people in our
community solely because you disagree with the
personal actions of one
member of their church."
Dr. Nick Gier did NOT "attack hundreds of people in
our community". He
simply responded to Doug Wilson's "I Love Me"
website entry "Naming the
Intoleristas" at
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!----><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=1105">http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=1105</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Doug Wilson is not simply "one member of their
church." He is the pastor
for Christ Church. And as such must under go closer
scrutiny than John
Doe's son, Jimmy, that falls asleep in church.
You really should evaluate and validate what you
post before you post it,
Arnold.
Take care, Moscow.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any
more than going to a
garage makes you a mechanic."
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
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