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<DIV><FONT size=4>You cannot be arguing seriously.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If a man and a woman can enter a marriage contract which
insures the application/protection of certain civil laws, the applying the
language of the 14th Amendment below, then a man and man or a woman and woman
deserve the same protection of the laws. Marriage is a legal, civil union
in law. Pedestry is not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dave@davebudge.com href="mailto:dave@davebudge.com">David M.
Budge</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 14, 2005 9:35
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] California
Gay-Marriage Ban Ruled Unconstitutional</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Sure I've read it. We can obviously take the implication
to your point to ridiculousness. Does a bigamist require equal
protection, or pedophiles, animal sodomists, or those who practice
incest require the same? The implications of morality are cause for
public consensus. That consensus thereby made under the legislative
process of a democratic republic. It does not hold to reason that
we cannot legislate morality. We do it all the time - murder, theft,
child abuse, spousal abuse, rape, incest, polygamy,
pornography.... So explain to me why, under your argument of the
14th Amendment, polygamists and animal sodomists are not deserving of
equal protection.<BR><BR>So when the time comes, as now, that the good
argument can be made that the morality of homosexual partners fits the
larger set of morality of the public, laws should be passed, amended, or
repealed. If they are not, legislatures may, with the support of popular
opinion, change constitutions so the the rights that should be afforded will
be become constitutionally unattainable. Ergo - blowback. That is
exactly what the Federal Marriage Amendment is about. <BR><BR>Listen,
I'm pro gay marriage, as I've said. But the 14th Amendment argument does
not pass intellectual scrutiny. <BR><BR>The proper argument is that these are
good members of society that do not harm others in their practices and do not
threaten a deleterious effect on society. They should be afforded the
rights and privileges that others have as to property succession and
custodianship. Simple as that.<BR><BR>If, however, the government would
get out of the marriage business this would all become moot and spousal rights
could be afforded in a construct of contract law.<BR><BR>db<BR><BR><BR>Art
Deco wrote:<BR>
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<DIV><FONT size=4>David,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Have you not read the 14th Amendment to the United States
Constitution? I thought this amendment was one of the cornerstones of
libertarian philosophy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT>
<H4 class=nav><FONT size=4>Amendment XIV</FONT></H4>
<P><FONT size=4></FONT></P>
<P><EMP><FONT size=4><FONT size=3>Section 1.</FONT></FONT></EMP><FONT
size=4><FONT size=3> All persons born or naturalized in the United States,
and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States
and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law
which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United
States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or
property, without due process of law; <FONT size=5><STRONG>nor deny to<FONT
size=6> <FONT color=#0000ff>any person</FONT></FONT> within its jurisdiction
<FONT color=#0000ff size=6>the <FONT color=#ff0000>equal protection</FONT>
of the laws</FONT></STRONG></FONT>...</FONT></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></P>
<P>--- Original Message ----- </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none"><B>From:</B>
<A title=dave@davebudge.com href="mailto:dave@davebudge.com">David M.
Budge</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none"><B>To:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom
Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, March 14, 2005 7:20 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-stretch: normal; font-size-adjust: none"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] California Gay-Marriage Ban Ruled Unconstitutional</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Hail Machiavelli! But I warn all that think the ends
justify the means of the potential blow-back of judges over-ruling
legislation may just disable judges from doing just that. The CA
statute that makes marriage between one man and one woman is an issue of
democracy by legislation. Legislatures have the upper hand and can
change constitutions. Hence the notion of of "three equal legs of
government" is false. One's reliance on judicial interpretation may
some day come back and bite one on one's ass.<BR><BR>Listen, I'm for love
and equal rights. The libertarian in me says that government should
stay the hell out of the marriage business (to which I have the
concurrence of Nick Gier.) <BR><BR>But just as the Supreme Court
made unconstitutional the practice of executing minors (the outcome with
which I approve as I approve of the outcome of the decision in
question) the upshot is a loss of democracy for residence of the
states. Preferably the law should be changed by democratic
process. In other words, the day will likely come when a law that
you favor and is mandated by majority representation will be overturned by
judicial fiat. This is the wrong way to run a democracy or a
republic.<BR><BR>Justice Brandies may be rolling over in his
grave.<BR><BR>db<BR><BR>Tom Hansen wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid200503142119.j2ELJ6KN019334@mail-gw.fsr.net
type="cite"><PRE wrap="">Alas! A reason to be proud to be from California.
It is a simple matter of equality. Nothing more, nothing less.
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/14/gay.marriage.ap/index.html">http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/14/gay.marriage.ap/index.html</A>
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that they
are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say
about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."
-- Robert F. Kennedy
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