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You got me there Mr. Arnold. I was unable to complete my MENSA
application due to my inability to spell and I figure I have an IQ of
about 81, but hey, who's counting. <br>
<br>
For the sake of efficiency I'll make notes in <font color="#ff0000">red
<font color="#000000">below your latest comments. And just to add a
little context, beside being a Registered Investment Advisor, I'm also
licensed to sell health insurance in several states (of which I
admittedly do little.)</font></font><br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl">Mr. Budge, and
others rushing to defend something you have no clue about, <br>
<br>
"Have some of you been raised under heavy power transmission lines or
grew up on a diet of lead based paint chips. I take what I can stands
and I can't stands it no more."--DB <br>
<br>
Well Popeye, any time you would like to compare IQs that is find with
me. I know me WISC score, what bout u? I even got it be documated. God
knows I have my social disabilities, but IQ is not one of them things I
score low on. <br>
<br>
“A) Accrording to the online U of I Student Health Insurance Program
brochure, the Idaho State Board of Education requires proof of health
insurance for ALL publicly funded institutions of higher education in
the state. This is not solely a U of I policy.” --D. Budge <br>
<br>
That law is there because UI and Gritman lobbied for it. Only 25% of
public colleges mandate health insurance. UI automatically charges all
students (4 or more credits) $1000 for the Student Health Insurance
Program (SHIP). Students must prove they already have $500,000 in
coverage and meet other stipulations to wave out of SHIP. Since most
18-22 year-olds don’t know details about their insurance as dependents
on their parent’s policy (ask one at randam if you doubt), they do not
wave out. Many parents, who pay for their child’s education, do not
analyze the fee breakdown to realize they are paying for double
insurance (ask one if you doubt). Further, UI exceeds the state
requirements for health insurance, in both amount, about $500,000, a
student status, 4 credits instead of 8. Just read yourself. <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.idahoboardofed.org/policies/health_insurance/index.asp">http://www.idahoboardofed.org/policies/health_insurance/index.asp</a>
</blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">Perhaps it is true that the U of I and Gritman
lobbied for this bill. I would have as well seeing that college
students, typically not understanding their own subjection to morbidity
and mortality tend to ignore the risks of mundane existence. I also
dispute that <b>most</b> parents do not analyze the fee breakdown as
patently untrue. Accordingly, using Adam Smith's tenet that purchases
are made rationally, I think the postulate those who can do not opt out
of the fee is absurd. Surely it happens form time to time, but
this system isn't designed to protect stupidity or neglect.<br>
<br>
You are also correct that part time students have more leeway in not
participating in the SHIP program at Boise State. Several causes may
be in play here, not the least of which may be the contract with Mega
to ensure an adequate number of students participate to keep premiums
low. This question of policy is beyond us both, but I find no evidence
that it has anything to do with greed on the part of Gritman, Moscow
Family Medicine, or Student Health Services. <br>
</font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”B) The insurance program is underwritten and administered by the Mega
Life and Health Insurance Company of America. Ergo, the University
makes not one damn dime form the insurance program.”-DB <br>
<br>
Incorrect Mr. Budge. It is ONLY underwritten by Mega Life Insurance
(MLA). It is administrated by
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.klais.com/services/students.htm">http://www.klais.com/services/students.htm</a>)
Klais & Company. You
would know this if you had SHIP because it is printed on the insurance
form. The services are also administered by Gritman. <br>
UI makes money in three ways. It still charges students for health
insurance services it use to provide but is now outsourcing. This fee
is $40 per full time student. Second, And it makes another chunk of
change because the amount of money it charges, $1000, is not the same
amount it pays out to pay the insurance company. So times $40 by 8,000
students. Then times 6,500 students by $50-100. Add together. Subtract
cost they don't have to pay to provide sevices they are now
outsourcing, That is how much they are making just from those three
sources. Gritman is making money because UI is now outsourcing students
to them instead of servicing them at the UI Health Center. Understand?
Or is this too confusing for you to follow?
</blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">I stand correct as well that Mega does not
administer the program. After some review, I learned that Klais is an
independent third party administrator (TPA) that performs as an
intermediary claims management service to coordinate claims between the
three providers under the umbrella system of SHIP. In insurance
vernacular, administration applies to claims processing. It is
unlikely
then that Gritman does not provide this function. I'll admit I don't
know for sure but I can assure you that it would be highly unlikely
unless Gritman was an HMO, which they appear not to be.<br>
<br>
Next, your understanding of how the self-insured portion of the U of I
SHIP program works over the long run if in fact one exists. It appears
that the University pays a flat fee to Moscow Family Medicine to cover
all the health needs of the enrollees delivered through Moscow Family
Medicine. This then puts the "risk" of a
higher level of services provided that what are estimated on Moscow
Family Medicine. If a lower number of services is provided they get to
pocket the difference. This type of HMO model benefits the U of I in
that it knows the sum certain of expenses to be paid though Student
Health Services. If, on the other hand, the University is self insured
it takes the risk that Moscow Family Medicine would take under the
other scenario. Any surpluses would be help in reserve to cover "high
claims" years or used to provide additional benefits or lower fees. I
challenge you to show me that this is a profit center for the
University. If it is, who then profits? Would funds collected for
general administration be used for poor purposes outside the charter of
the University?<br>
</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
C) The cost of the insurance is about 25% less than the cost of
comparable individual policies purchased through any other competitive
program in the state. Pretty good deal ask ANY insurance agent. <br>
<br>
Bullhonky(I think this is a word) Mister!! Did you even LOOK before
making such a fallacious statement? UI students pay $1000 a year. Boise
State University Students pay $756 year. ISU and LCSC $660 or even
less. Every public university and college in the state of Idaho pays
less then UI students. And you know what else?-- They get the OPTION of
having vision and/or dental. </blockquote>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000">It also is important to understand the difference
in the policies
between the U of I and BSU. The pricing differential is a function of
benefits. Of particular not is the $250 annual deductible for the U
of I program compared to the $500 annual deductible for BSU. There
are many other significant differences as well. For example,
preexisting conditions are excluded from the BSU plan unless covered
under
HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) where the U
of I has open enrollment. This is a biggie. Secondly, the BSU program
has more restrictive limits on certain services such as a $5,000 annual
cap on mental health services compared to a $10,000 cap at the U of I.
The BSU program does have some lower co-payment such as a $5 doctors
visit compared with a $12 fee at U of I. By in large, however, it is
impossible to say which program is more economical as each health
incident is unique. I would guess, however, that more students pay
larger out of pocket expenses with the $500 deductible. By the way,
BSU outsources all of its student health services. The link for the BSU
program is here:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.boisestate.edu/healthservices/insurance/benefits_summary_chart.asp">http://www.boisestate.edu/healthservices/insurance/benefits_summary_chart.asp</a><br>
<br>
Additionally, I know from my practice that a comparable insurance
policy for a 20 year old male in Montana would run about $1,400 -$2,000
per year if purchased as an individual policy. Since SHIP is a
group policy it is cheaper that what young working stiffs have to pay.<br>
</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”D) The $11 million charged off for indigent care cannot be written off
on their taxes. They don't pay income taxes for cripes sake. They're
a not-for-profit entity!!!!” <br>
<br>
The doctors are the ones that provide the $11,000,000 in care and they
are for profit companies, Doctors are not free agents. So YES, they can
and do write that off. Don't confuse the contracted doctors and the
hospitals. See how you even confuse yourself--HAHA! (sorry have to
laugh at self induced confusion) </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">I don't have the annual report, but I think
you're dead wrong here. Hospitals bill their services separately from
doctors. Any losses the doctors have are tax deductible, but I'll take
B.J. Swanson as the authority here. So no, the $11,000,0000 is not tax
deductible. I'll bet the permanent teeth of all six of my kids on it.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”E) Who, exactly should pay for indigent care? What is happening right
now is that everyone else is paying for those who can't through $20
bandaids. In fact, the people who get screwed the most are those who
either have not the benefit of a collectively bargained health plan
(like SHIP) or a government program (like Medicaid and Medicare) but
I'll get to that in a moment. Write you strinkin' congressman!” <br>
<br>
The state government PAYS Gritman through earmarked funds (VAT value
added taxes on liquor which students pay into and their contribution
exceeds what Gritman pays for indigent students) to take care of
indigents. If the amount of indigent funds exceeds the government funds
for indigent care then Gritman has to absorb those extra costs. If
Gritman goes under that amount, it gets to KEEP the extra amount. Get
how they make money now if there are no indigents? Confused or clear on
this? </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">No, I'm not clear on this. In Fund Balance
Accounting all revenues are recognized and accordingly the $11,000,000
charge-off tells us specifically that there were not enough revenues to
cover
the costs of services, hence Gritman (whoever he is) has no excess
funds for non-payers. Get me the annual report and I'll explain it to
you. I'll
also bet you anything you want on this issue. If I'm wrong I'll push a
bowling ball down the middle of Main Street with my now while wearing a
tutu.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”Now, as I say, I don't have a dog in this fight (although I was born
there and delivered by the legendary Dr. Wilson for all you townies who
may care.) The current health system in this country is a disaster,
but that's little fault of the hospitals. It's systemic.”--DB <br>
<br>
Right it is. And it is a disaster because why? We all know corruption
and greed is occurring in every state and city except ours? Is that
what you think? No corruption in Moscow, no greed, nobody trying to get
ahead or twist the system just a bit in their favor? Right, we all know
Moscow is nothing but incorruptible saints. We also know that if
someone where to come up with a way to make money off mandating health
insurance, we would all know, those people would be mean, have no
friends, have horns, a tail, and a have a specific line put on a bill
statement that was clearly marked that read, <br>
<br>
“Corruption and Fraud……………………….$200” <br>
<br>
Right in there somewhere between capsules and crutches. Obviously
clever people would not think to use an indirect approach that required
a little bit of research and inside knowledge to get at any real
understanding of what was going on. We are also fairly certain that
since this health insurance program was established under the direct
supervision of Dr. Hoover it is fiscally sound and in the long term
best interests of the students, University, and community—no evidence
to contradict this certain fact, right? </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">This is just hyperbole. If you have evidence of
corruption that go to the authorities and stop throwing out libelous
accusations. I don't know Dr. Hoover and I don't care. You're going
to get yourself sued. Who is profiting from this besides the
purveyors of the services. The University isn't a person nor is
Gritman. They are "owned" by the public as not for profit
entities. </font><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”I assume, but I don't know for sure, that Gritman makes its annual
reports available, in one form or another, to anyone who asks for
it. The accounting used is called Fund Balance Accounting where there
is no equity per say as there is no ownership. <br>
<br>
Right, like I said, look for the line that says, "Corruption and
Fraud...................................$200". they document that stuff
well in publically released budget statements, usually now found
online. Be careful though, sometimes they hide it under "Fraud and
Corruption (Hint: look under the F's)." </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">This is unsubstantiated paranoia. </font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
Anyone with a bone to pick with Gritman should get that statement
before casting ad hominem attacks based on groundless assumptions and
vacuous logic. My guess is, being familiar with such things, that
Gritaman has a minimal "free funds balance" and just about all
resources are earmarked for specific programs. If you're really so
full of piss and vinegar on the issue get involved, donate your time to
the hospital, and study the finacials, so no one has to subsidize you
ignorance with spilled ink.” <br>
<br>
Mr. Budge, I am very well versed in SHIP. I was an ASUI senator for two
years and watched this whole SHIP get started from infancy to birth,
ASUI was a part of it. I have a stack of the paper work of it being
developed. I have lots and lots of documentation on this issue. And I
didn’t happen upon my understanding of what Gritman and UI were doing
by my own right. I had doctors, nurses, administrators, and students at
UI that approached me because I was the only ASUI Senator that was
openly and loudly opposed to the mandatory Health Insurance Policy and
a 25% increase in costs that gave students less benefits. I didn’t
figure it out on my own, I had about 6 people (professionals, not
students) tell me directly. </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">Your protestation over mandatory insurance may
have merit. But your overall understanding of the health care system
is far too provincial. You have a complete right to question the
program, but you better have more than nasty accusations when you
accuse people of corruption that anything I've seen here. You're facts
just don't back up your rhetoric.</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”Lastly, is it so wrong that anyone makes a profit on anything? How
ridiculously obtuse is this proposition? We live in a market economy
and, although it sometimes lacks in fairness, it seems the best current
model in the egalitarian distribution of goods and services. (hint to
Mr. Arnold - you've got a University in Moscow - how 'bout econ
101.)”--DB <br>
<br>
Well, Mr. Budge, first, show me where I said I opposed profit? I never
did say that. It seems to me the only way you can win an argument is if
you get everyone to agree on false statements as being fact or changing
the argument to be something I did not make. I am all for profit. But I
believe in honest profit. Not corruption. It is unfair and unethical to
give some businesses tax free state supported business and tax
exemptions based on who are their friends. It should be based on merit
ONLY. </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">Again, corruption? Show us some facts.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
<br>
“Then pathetic whiners that think everything in the country relative to
commerce is out to get them will have the opportunity to take their
pathetic paranoia and pound sand. You should be thanking him for doing
otherwise thankless work. “ <br>
<br>
No Mr. Budge, I think it is corruption that PREVENTS honest and hard
working men and women from getting a fair deal. It is people screwing
other people out of a fair shake that is wrong. Not free enterprise. I
think it is sick and twisted to make people buy $500,000 coverage
health insurance, even people on Medicaid, or otherwise be disqualified
from getting a college education. Is that Libertarian? That is wrong,
and unfair to the poor. And I will not apologize. Thousands of students
pay for SHIP and they don’t even know it because they are enrolled
automatically. YOU DON”T THINK THAT IS WRONG?? It is just fine and
dandy to screw poor students out the last few bucks they got left??
Those dollars should go to businesses that WORK for their money right
here in Moscow, not siphoned out to some insurance company in Ohio. </blockquote>
<font color="#ff0000">People on Medicaid can opt out as they have proof
of insurance. And no, it's not libertarian. True Libertarian
ideologues would say cover your own expenses and to hell with indigent
care. As I've told you, I'm not a libertarian ideologue and I believe
that we are a wealthy enough country to support those truly in need. </font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
”You may have an argument for socialized medicine (regardless of how
wrong heades it may be) but you're making assumptions here that are
based on, from what I can tell ...nothing.”--DB <br>
<br>
Just because everything they say that is wrong about Socialism is
correct doesn't’t mean everything about Capitalism is perfect. Balance
is the key. Get rid of corruption and health costs will drop
dramatically. Take care of those that are poor and sick and cannot take
care of themselves and they get well and contribute back when they are
strong. Don't kick a man when he is down and weak and turn away and say
it costs to much. In the long run, it is the cold shoulder that costs
so much more than the warm hand. </blockquote>
<br>
<font color="#ff0000">I said in my earlier post that capitalism was
sometimes "unfair." I'm not seeing the corruption you accuse. Hell,
If I were on the board at the hospital or Dr. Thompson I'ld sue you
into perdition for defamation and libel. </font><br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
Remember the lesson here kids. It is better to be politically correct
and defend people doing wrong that are your friends, then to stand up
to the ripping off of 12,000 college students. Oh, how I get so
confused by this planet and the people on it. And God forbid, that you
ever say anything contrary to popular public opinion. <br>
<br>
Good Day, <br>
<br>
Donovan J Arnold <br>
<br>
BTW, Four generations of my family have been serviced by Gritman--And
they died anyway :P Can anyone beat that? <br>
<br>
PS. Even people that don’t like me (about 95% of the world population)
would have to agree that it was incompetence on part of Gritman not to
put my ass back as soon as my head popped out in room ten. : P <br>
</blockquote>
<font color="#ff6666">Listen, I reacted the way I did because I can't
accept someone impugning the reputation of good people trying to do
good work. I have no interest in political correctness and I certainly
wasn't trying to chum up to anyone. My politics are 180 degrees from
many, if not most, of the people on this list. The difference between
me and you, it appears, is that I
go through life believeing that 99.99% of ALL people have good hearts.
We all spend our lives getting on and doing what we need to make the
drole mundacity of existence something meaningful. For all those who
think that there is a thief at every turn I have sadness. Yep, we're
all gunna die soon. Better we spend those last few ephermal moments of
life thanking those who are careing for us than worrying they're going
to steal our shoes after we expire.<br>
<br>
Other than that, I'm done with this, unless you can find some proof
that there is actual corruption going on or I'm wrong in my facts. If
you can prove corruption I'll be right there to help you shackle the
scalawags and hoist them off to the hoosgow. It'll be my pleasure.<br>
</font>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="midBAY101-F15E6B0C614ACBE605DE810A6660@phx.gbl"><br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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