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<DIV><FONT size=4>Ron, Scott, et al,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Begging the question:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><A
href="http://skepdic.com/begging.html">http://skepdic.com/begging.html</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Another example (partial recycled from an earlier
post):</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>[A] The bible is true because it is
the word of god.</STRONG></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG> How
do you know the bible is the word of god?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG> The
bible says so.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG> How
do we know what the bible says is true?</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>
See [A].</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>The is a classic example of a circular argument (aka begging the question)
-- a fallacious argument form assuming as true what you are trying to
prove.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ron: Respond to the charge that the argument just above is
fallacious not with reassertion -- but with something other than Christians
have done it for a long time (as they believed for a long time that the earth
was flat and mental illness was caused by the possession of demons).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you admit that argument is circular, just say so.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ron_smith@md7.com href="mailto:ron_smith@md7.com">Ron Smith</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:42
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Gary Larson on
one of today's headlines</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2>Mr. Dredge,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2>I suppose you are
entitled to your judgement of my motives, even if you are wrong. The reason I
try to convince people of the truth (not just on this list) is not because of
any insecurity I may have. It is simply because that is exactly what my
religion (i.e. Christ Himself) tells me to do. I am attempting nothing more
than to be faithful to my beliefs and to God by giving reason for the
hope that is in me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2><EM>1 Peter 3:15
"...always be ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an
account for the hope that is in you..."</EM></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><EM><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080
size=2></FONT></EM> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Verdana color=#000080 size=2>Ron Smith</FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com on behalf of Scott Dredge<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sun
1/9/2005 6:09 PM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[Vision2020] Gary Larson on one of today's headlines<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT size=2>Ron,<BR><BR>I don't think you're comfortable at all. I
think<BR>you're very insecure about your religion which is why<BR>you
continuously try convince everyone on this list of<BR>your
piety.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR><BR>--- Ron Smith <ron_smith@md7.com>
wrote:<BR><BR>> "Do those of you who are young or who have children<BR>>
feel comfortable with such attitudes?"<BR>> <BR>> Well, I am young
(28) and I have children, and I<BR>> feel comfortable with such attitudes.
But my comfort<BR>> is not found in the abilities of mankind to
protect<BR>> me, or the lack thereof. My comfort is found in the<BR>>
One who made mankind and has it all planned out.<BR>> <BR>> Isaiah
46:10 "... My purpose will be established,<BR>> and I will accomplish all
My good
pleasure."<BR>><BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
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