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<P dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=Verdana size=2>"Even if
Joseph were somehow required to return to ancestral land in Bethlehem, it
was not necessary to take Mary with him. But the whole idea is a
fantastic one."</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT face=Verdana
color=#000080 size=2>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">The Roman
census is an historical fact. Here are a few links to some descriptions and
a photo of <STRONG>actual census records</STRONG> uncovered during the last
century. Notice how some of the records describe the necessity of returning
to one's place of birth. </SPAN><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><U><SPAN style="COLOR: purple"><A
href="http://www.trove.net/CUBU0012/CUBU0012_000052.html"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">http://www.trove.net/CUBU0012/CUBU0012_000052.html</SPAN></A></SPAN></U><BR><A
href="http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/greek/census.html"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">http://www.kchanson.com/ANCDOCS/greek/census.html</SPAN></A><BR><A
href="http://statspol.unas.cz/clanky/scitani/rimska_scitani/documents.htm"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">http://statspol.unas.cz/clanky/scitani/rimska_scitani/documents.htm</SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">This
was simply googled, people. Does this data fit into your "box of
intelligibility", Mr. Gier?</SPAN></FONT></P>
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<DIV dir=ltr><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com
on behalf of Nick Gier<BR><B>Sent:</B> Fri 12/31/2004 5:28 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] Mary and her
Donkey<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dear Pat,<BR><BR>There they go again: Pat & Co. assuming that any
criticism of conservative Christianity must be coming from evil atheists.
For the record I am a theist, not an orthodox one, primarily because heresy is
always more fun, enlightening, and usually more true. If we do theology
and don't abide by the rules of logic and the canons of evidence, then gibberish
is the result. If that means we put God in a box, then so much the better
for logical boxes. For one, it would lead to better election
results.<BR><BR>God did not have to put Mary on a donkey, Pat, Joseph could have
easily done it himself. But my point was that the trip was not
necessary. The Romans sent officials from village to village to make
property tax assessments. Joseph would have been required to stay in
Nazareth or he would have faced severe penalties. One in the crowd at the
Feast of Tabernacles implies that Jesus cannot be the Messiah because he comes
from Galilee and not Bethlehem (John 7.41), yet another Messianic expectation
that Jesus did not meet. The deeper implication is that the authors of John
either did not know of Luke's story or they rejected it as
unhistorical.<BR><BR>Even if Joseph were somehow required to return to ancestral
land in Bethlehem, it was not necessary to take Mary with him. But the
whole idea is a fantastic one. In <I>The Rise of Christianity </I>the
former Bishop E. W. Barnes remarks: "The Romans were a practical race,
skilled in the art of government. It is incredible that they should have
taken a census according to such a fantastic system. [returning everyone to
their ancestral lands] If any such census had been taken, the dislocation to
which it would have led would have been world-wide. Roman historians would
not have failed to record it."<BR><BR>Just another Moscow Banshee luxuriating in
his little box of intelligibility,<BR><BR>Nick Gier<BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>