<HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Ron writes:</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><FONT color=#000000> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">"It is clear as well, Ms. Opyr that you are well versed in anti-Christian rhetoric, but you failed to handle Jesus’ other claims to deity. Who else is called "Lord", "Messiah" or "the Christ"? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Who else is to be worshiped other than God? Who else has the authority to forgive sin?"</SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><FONT color=#000000> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Don't be silly, young man. If there's one thing I expect from Biblical literalists, it's a thorough knowledge of scripture. If you'll re-read Acts, I think you'll find that the high priest lists several other possibilities for the title of messiah. And let's not forget that Jesus preached in an occupied </SPAN><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Jerusalem</SPAN></st1:place></st1:City><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"> -- an occupation that, not unlike our current occupation of </SPAN><st1:country-region><st1:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Iraq</SPAN></st1:place></st1:country-region><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">, was not universally welcomed by the locals.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The Jews were on the lookout for a messiah to free them from </SPAN><st1:City><st1:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Rome</SPAN></st1:place></st1:City><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">, as well as from </SPAN><st1:City><st1:place><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Rome</SPAN></st1:place></st1:City><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">'s Sanhedrin puppets.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">But that’s all beside the point.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Your questions to me are frankly silly.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>They can only be asked by one believer of another.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m not a believer.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The New Testament is meaningless to me.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You ask who else is called Lord, Messiah, or Christ?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I don’t know -- David Koresh?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Jim Jones?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The Grand High Llama of the Purple and White Garter?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You have taken four texts, four gospels, all written by followers of Jesus in the century or so after his crucifixion.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>These gospels have one purpose and one purpose only, and that is to spread the belief that Jesus was lord, messiah, and Christ.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It’s impossible to use them as you’re attempting to do -- as part of a logical, cohesive argument.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You cannot turn faith into fact by quoting scriptures that you deem holy.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN></SPAN></FONT> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>Let me give you an example: I’m guessing that you don’t believe in the Upanishads.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If I quoted from them in order to prove the existence of </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><FONT color=#000000>Brahma the creator, Agni the god of fire, or Vishnu the preserver, you’d throw those babies out along with their email bathwater.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And yet one billion Hindus can’t be wrong, can they?<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> Perhaps y</SPAN>ou’re willing to say that they are.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m not.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I’m also not willing to say that your faith is wrong, or Keely’s faith, or anyone else’s faith. I don't have that kind of hubris -- just the kind that makes me question your pillars certainty (and consequent criticism of others) and ask you to defend them in their historical and contextual context. As you and your pal Dale clearly feel quite cock-sure of yourselves, you ought to be willing and able to do that. In spades. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><FONT size=3> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT size=3><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma">Which brings me to my final point (and to the happy release of Brad Neuman’s delete key.) <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><U>not</U></B> well-versed in anti-Christian rhetoric.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am <B style="mso-bidi-font-weight: normal"><U>not</U></B> anti-Christian. Be Christian all you like. Have at it, with my blessings upon you. I don't care what religion you practice or what articles of faith you believe. I am, however, anti-ignorance; I am anti-unexamined, unfettered, and indefensible Biblical literalism; and I am utterly opposed to shoddy argumentation and cheesy scriptural one-upsmanship. If you want to play the Bible quote game, then try explaining Luke 3:38, in which Adam is described as "son of God." (A tricky character, Adam -- no mother, only God, his father. And what about Eve, born of the virgin Adam?) Try also Job 38, which tells us that the "sons of God" shouted for joy at the earth's creation, or Job 1:6, or Genesis 6:2, which again make reference to "sons of God."<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Learn something about the history and source of your faith before you toss out bits of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John with such wild and reckless abandon.</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia"><FONT size=3> <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><FONT size=3>It’s fine with me that you believe in the divinity of Christ. It should be fine with you that I don’t.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>On matters of faith, we should live and let live.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What isn't fine is to accuse those who believe differently of atheism, and then to make an argument in your favor that goes something like this: some of Jesus' followers believed him to be the only begotten son of God, they recorded this belief in writing, and sometime between the second and fourth centuries, the texts that supported this view were gathered together into the four canonical gospels. So, now we've got a New Testament; the early Christian Church has accepted it; ergo, Jesus is the son of God. That's circular reasoning at its worst. I have greater respect for those Christian Bookstore bumper stickers that say, "God said it, I believe it, that's the end of it." </FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><FONT size=3></FONT></SPAN> </P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><FONT size=3>And so it is<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> As my grand-dad used to say, why </SPAN>go around your ass to get to your elbow?</FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><o:p><FONT size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><FONT size=3>Sincerely (and, for the sake of my friend Brad, my final word on the subject),</FONT></SPAN></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Georgia; mso-bidi-font-family: Tahoma"><FONT size=3>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment</FONT></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> </SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML><br clear=all><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href='http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>