<HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Dear Saundra, </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you've no doubt noticed, Ron Smith believes he's answered me by quoting John 2:23: "Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also." This, of course, suggests that I'm on my way to a fiery rotisserie in hell where I'll spend eternity listening to the Chili's kitchen chorus singing, "I want my baby back, baby back, baby back ribs." That's as may be, but it does not make me a "professed atheist." Ron (and Dale) need to pay more attention to their vocabulary: what we're talking about here is semantics, not salvation. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No, I don't "have the son." I don't believe that Jesus was/is the one and only son of God. I don't believe in his divinity. I don't believe that God is tripartite. But I am not an atheist. If I were, I'd believe in no god at all. None. Nada. Rien. I'd happily sing John Lennon's <EM>Imagine</EM> with a perfectly straight face<EM>.</EM> But that's not me. I'm singing "Hear, O Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is One." (Shma Yisrael, Ha'Shem Elokenu Ha'Shem Echad.) Now that might be heathenism in Ron and Dale's book; it might be hellfire and damnation; but it ain't atheism.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thus endeth the lesson. Reading for Shabbat school next week: Elaine Pagels' <EM>Beyond Belief</EM>, which will teach Ron and Dale a thing or two about the origins of the Book of John and the fight in the early church over whether or not to include it in the Biblical canon. The first three gospels (and the excluded Book of Thomas) sing a rather different tune about the divinity of Jesus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shalom (with teeth gritted),</DIV> <DIV>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <BR>----- Original Message -----</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Saundra Lund</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 27, 2004 9:59 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> 'Joan Opyr'; 'Vision2020 Moscow'</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Ah, Joan, Joan, Joan . . . <BR><BR>Dale Courtney monologued:<BR>"It cracks me up when Joan--a professed atheist . . . "<BR>http://right-mind.us/<BR><BR>Your response:<BR>"I am not an atheist; I am a Jew. I believe in one God . . ."<BR><BR>Why are you quibbling details?<BR><BR>I think, in Wilson World's book, there is no real difference: if you reject the<BR>Trinity (and their own peculiar interpretation of the Trinity & Christianity, no<BR>less), then you are damned to h*ll, pure & simple. It matters not how strong<BR>your faith in God: if you don't accept their particular flavor of Christianity<BR>(and sharing the first five books of the Bible just isn't good enough), then<BR>nothing else matters. You are an UnBeliever or a Non-Believer, depending on<BR>which minion you are listening to. Heck, they think a lot of Christians like<BR>myself won't be making it to Heaven, either, so you're in good company :-)<BR><BR>[Actually, I'm quite secure in my belief that Heaven will be a wonderfully rich<BR>place with a wide variety of faiths. I'll be there, and so will you, and lots<BR>of other fascinating folk and beings.<BR><BR>However, I suspect that those who will be conspicuously and blessedly absent<BR>will be those who lived truly *wicked* lives. You know, those who think they<BR>know better than everyone else what God *really* wants, those with the "holier<BR>than thou" attitude, those who try to force their beliefs on others to line<BR>their own pockets, those who think it's their place to sit in judgment of<BR>others, etc.<BR><BR>Of course, I could well be wrong about that, and that's OK: I have supreme<BR>confidence in God's, not Dale's or Doug's, ability to sort it all out :-)]<BR><BR>So, while Dale screwed up calling you an atheist, it doesn't really matter: you<BR>are going straight to h*ll, young lady, unless you change your beliefs and<BR>practices.<BR><BR>And, now I'm going to be childish and immature and gloat a bit: I've had the<BR>*extreme* pleasure of reading Joan's forthcoming book . . .<BR>neener-neener-neener! Next Fall, when it's published, I strongly suggest that<BR>everyone RUN to get it :-) It is truly a delightfully entertaining work penned<BR>by an obviously gifted writer! In fact, I've had to change my top position for<BR>the best new fiction :-)<BR><BR>Joan, I know it's probably too early to ask, but is there a local book-signing<BR>planned???<BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>nothing.<BR>-Edmund Burke<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] On<BR>Behalf Of Joan Opyr<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:22 PM<BR>To: Vision2020 Moscow<BR>Subject: [Vision2020] Dropping a log on Dale's blog<BR><BR>Dear Visionaries,<BR><BR>As I've mentioned before, I don't follow Dale Courtney's or Doug Wilson's blogs.<BR>This is because A) I'm very busy these days plugging the upcoming publication of<BR>my *book; and B) if I wanted any more crap out of either of them, I'd squeeze<BR>their heads. However, as several people have now emailed me privately to tell<BR>me that Dale has referred to me as an atheist, I feel that I must lower the boom<BR>on his blog and set the record straight. (Or as straight as I can considering<BR>the fact that I'm a lesbian and thus by definition as bent as a dog's hind leg.<BR>But I digress. As usual. A-hem.)<BR><BR>I am not an atheist; I am a Jew. I believe in one God, and that one God would<BR>be the God of Abraham. Dale, as a self-proclaimed Reformed Christian,<BR>technically worships the same God I worship. The only difference is that Dale<BR>has given my God a few accessories, like a son, a Virgin, and a split<BR>personality (think The Three Faces of Eve). Now, I happen to like my God simple<BR>and singular, not Trinitarian, not belled, and not whistled. Nevertheless, I<BR>believe that it is incumbent upon Dale (and, for that matter, upon all<BR>Christians) to recognize that the God they worship is the God of the Jews. The<BR>Burning Bush The voice on Mount Sinai. The pillar of fire and cloud. Jehovah<BR>is Jehovah is Jehovah, but that doesn't mean that unless I worship him in<BR>triplicate, I'm an atheist. Far from it. <BR><BR>If I were in any way childish or immature, I might go so far as to remind Dale<BR>that my people got to the flaming shrubbery first, and that he and his ilk are<BR>really just a load of Johnny-come-latelys. I might toss in a "neener-neener,"<BR>or a "nyuk-nyuk," or a "shut yer yap, ya ignorant gentile." Good thing I'm not,<BR>eh? That would be so tacky.<BR><BR>I've got a brand new pair of roller-skates. I want Dale to give me back my key.<BR><BR><BR>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment<BR>*book, as in first novel, as in to be published in the Fall of 2005 by Bywater<BR>Books, which can be visited at www.bywaterbooks.com <http://wwwbywaterbooks.com><BR>.<BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=all><hr>Get more from the Web. 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