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<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Lets see if this topic is covered in Thursday night's presidential debates.
Wanna' make a bet on it? It is too bad the League of Women Voters were forced
out of being in charge of the debates. When they conducted them we got a good
debate.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For those interested in how the debates have sunk in to the "sound bite"
farce we now see please watch NOW with Bill Moyers. Last night's program was
excellent.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dick Schmidt</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco aka W. Fox</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, September 25, 2004 9:41
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] 09-25-04
Spokesman-Review: Iraqis caught in crossfire </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Verdana Ref" size=4>
<P>"The Americans keep criticizing Saddam for the mass graves. How many graves
are the Americans making in Iraq?" Abu Mohammed,who was in Saddam Hussein's
military </P>
<H2>Iraqis caught in crossfire </H2>
<H4 class=deck>Report: U.S. forces killing more civilians than insurgents</H4>
<P> </P>
<P class=byline><SPAN class=name><A
href="http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/bylines.asp?bylinename=Nancy A. Youssef">Nancy
A. Youssef</A></SPAN><BR>Knight Ridder Newspapers<BR>September 25, 2004</P><!---------Code for Big Ads-------------------><!---------End Code for Big Ads------------------->
<P>BAGHDAD, Iraq – Operations by U.S. and multinational forces and Iraqi
police are killing twice as many Iraqis – most of them civilians – as attacks
by insurgents, according to statistics compiled by the Iraqi Health Ministry
and obtained exclusively by Knight Ridder.</P>
<P>According to the ministry, the interim Iraqi government recorded 3,487
Iraqi deaths in 15 of the country's 18 provinces from April 5 – when the
ministry began compiling the data – until Sept. 19. Of those, 328 were women
and children. Another 13,720 Iraqis were injured, the ministry said.</P>
<P>While most of the dead are believed to be civilians, the data include an
unknown number of police and Iraqi national guardsmen. Many Iraqi deaths,
especially of insurgents, are never reported, so the actual number of Iraqis
killed in fighting could be significantly higher.</P>
<P>During the same period, 432 American soldiers were killed.</P>
<P>Iraqi officials said the statistics proved that U.S. airstrikes intended
for insurgents also were killing large numbers of innocent civilians. Some say
these casualties are undermining popular acceptance of the American-backed
interim government.</P>
<P>
<TABLE align=left>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>That suggests that more aggressive U.S. military
operations, which the Bush administration has said are being planned to clear
the way for nationwide elections scheduled for January, could backfire and
strengthen the insurgency.</P>
<P>American military officials said "damage will happen" in their effort to
wrest control of some areas from insurgents. They blamed the insurgents for
embedding themselves in communities, saying that's endangering innocent
people.</P>
<P>Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, an American military spokesman, said the insurgents
were living in residential areas, sometimes in homes filled with
munitions.</P>
<P>"As long as they continue to do that, they are putting the residents at
risk," Boylan said. "We will go after them."</P>
<P>Boylan said the military conducted intelligence to determine whether a home
housed insurgents before striking it. While damage would happen, the
airstrikes were "extremely precise," he said. And he said that any attacks by
the multinational forces were "in coordination with the interim
government."</P>
<P>The Health Ministry statistics indicate that more children have been killed
around Ramadi and Fallujah than in Baghdad, though those cities together have
only one-fifth of the Iraqi capital's population.</P>
<P>According to the statistics, 59 children were killed in Anbar province — a
hotbed of the Sunni Muslim insurgency that includes the cities of Ramadi and
Fallujah – compared with 56 children in Baghdad. The ministry defines children
as anyone younger than 12.</P>
<P>"When there are military clashes, we see innocent people die," said Dr.
Walid Hamed, a member of the operations section of the Health Ministry, which
compiles the statistics.</P>
<P>Juan Cole, a history professor at the University of Michigan who
specializes in Shiite Islam, said the widespread casualties meant that
coalition forces already had lost the political campaign: "I think they lost
the hearts and minds a long time ago."</P>
<P>"And they are trying to keep U.S. military casualties to a minimum in the
run-up to the U.S. elections" by using airstrikes instead of ground forces, he
said.</P>
<P>American military officials say they're targeting only terrorists and are
aggressively working to spare innocent people nearby.</P>
<P>Nearly a third of the Iraqi dead – 1,122 – were killed in August, according
to the statistics. May was the second deadliest month, with 749 Iraqis killed,
and 319 were killed in June, the least violent month. Most of those killed
lived in Baghdad; the ministry found that 1,068 had died in the capital.</P>
<P>Many Iraqis said they thought the numbers showed that the multinational
forces disregarded their lives.</P>
<P>"The Americans do not care about the Iraqis. They don't care if they get
killed, because they don't care about the citizens," said Abu Mohammed, 50,
who was a major general in Saddam Hussein's army in Baghdad. "The Americans
keep criticizing Saddam for the mass graves. How many graves are the Americans
making in Iraq?"</P>
<P>At his fruit stand in southern Baghdad, Raid Ibraham, 24, theorized: "The
Americans keep attacking the cities not to keep the security situation stable,
but so they can stay in Iraq and control the oil."</P>
<P>Others blame the multinational forces for allowing security to
disintegrate, inviting terrorists from everywhere and threatening the lives of
everyday Iraqis.</P>
<P>"Anyone who hates America has come here to fight: Saddam's supporters,
people who don't have jobs, other Arab fighters. All these people are on our
streets," said Hamed, the ministry official. "But everyone is afraid of the
Americans, not the fighters. And they should be."</P>
<P>Iraqi officials said about two-thirds of the Iraqi deaths were caused by
multinational forces and police; the remaining third died from insurgent
attacks. The ministry began separating attacks by multinational and police
forces and insurgents June 10.</P>
<P>From that date until Sept. 10, 1,295 Iraqis were killed in clashes with
multinational forces and police versus 516 killed in terrorist operations, the
ministry said. The ministry defined terrorist operations as explosive devices
in residential areas, car bombs or assassinations.</P>
<P>The ministry said it didn't have any statistics for the three provinces in
the north: Arbil, Dohuk and Sulaimaniyah, ethnic Kurdish areas that generally
have been more peaceful than the rest of the country.</P>
<P>The Health Ministry is the only organization that attempts to track deaths
through government agencies. The U.S. military said it kept estimates, but it
refused to release them. Ahmed al Rawi, the communications director of the
International Committee of the Red Cross in Baghdad, said the organization
didn't have the staffing to compile such information.</P>
<P>The Health Ministry reports to interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, whom the
United States appointed in June.</P>
<P>Iraqi health and hospital officials agreed that the statistics captured
only part of the death toll.</P>
<P>To compile the data, the Health Ministry calls the directors general of the
15 provinces and asks how many deaths related to the war were reported at
hospitals. The tracking of such information has become decentralized since the
fall of Saddam Hussein's regime because both hospitals and morgues issue death
certificates now. And families often bury their dead without telling any
government agencies or are treated at facilities that don't report to the
government.</P>
<P>The ministry is convinced that nearly all of those reported dead are
civilians, not insurgents. Most often, a family member wouldn't report it if
his or her relative died fighting for rebel cleric Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi
Army militia or another insurgent force, and the relative would be buried
immediately, said Dr. Shihab Ahmed Jassim, another member of the ministry's
operations section.</P>
<P>"People who participate in the conflict don't come to the hospital. Their
families are afraid they will be punished," said Dr. Yasin Mustaf, the
assistant manager of al Kimdi Hospital near Baghdad's poor Sadr City
neighborhood. "Usually, the innocent people come to the hospital. That is what
the numbers show."</P>
<P>The numbers also exclude those whose bodies were too mutilated to be
recovered at car bombings or other attacks, the ministry said.</P>
<P>Ministry officials said they didn't know how big the undercount was. "We
have nothing to do with politics," Jassim said.</P>
<P>Other independent organizations have estimated that 7,000 to 12,000 Iraqis
have been killed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush declared an end to
major combat operations.</P>
<P>Iraqis are aware of the casualties that are due to U.S. forces, and nearly
everyone has a story to tell.</P>
<P>At al Kimdi Hospital, Dr. Mumtaz Jaber, a vascular surgeon, said that three
months ago, his 3-year-old nephew, his sister and his brother-in-law were
driving in Baghdad at about 9 p.m. when they saw an American checkpoint. His
nephew was killed.</P>
<P>"They didn't stop fast enough. The Americans shot them immediately," Jaber
said. "This is how so many die."</P>
<P>At the Baghdad morgue, Dr. Quasis Hassan Salem said he saw a family of
eight brought in: three women, three men and two children. They were sleeping
on their roof last month because it was hot inside. A military helicopter shot
at them and killed them: "I don't know why."</P>
<P>U.S. officials said any allegations that soldiers had recklessly killed
Iraqi citizens were investigated at the Iraqi Assistance Center in downtown
Baghdad.</P>
<P>"There is no way to refute" such stories, said Robert Callahan, a spokesman
at the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. "All you can do is tell them the truth and
hope it eventually will get through."</P></FONT></DIV>
<P>
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