<HTML><BODY STYLE="font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>Really, Mr. Ryan:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have never described Paul Kimmell as Doug Wilson's puppet; you're confusing me with someone else. I believe that Mr. Kimmell is a follower, an accolyte, and a true believer. Like the "how high should I jump" Marine recruits I compared him to, Paul does have volition. It's how he chooses to exercise that volition that is the matter of our current debate. When does the question of free will become moot? We've already faced the spectacle of Doug answering questions that were put to Paul. When did the two become one? Under the circumstances, you cannot be surprised if some have confused Doug and Paul with Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy (or, in light of Doug's ruthless sarcasm, Waylon Flowers and Madame.) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for proving my contention that Robert E. Lee is a hero of Doug's, there's no need for me to employ my Spider Sense; interpolation seems entirely adequate. At Doug's school, Logos, Lee's birthday is celebrated; Lincoln's is not. Lee's portrait hangs in the school; Ulysses S Grant's does not. Doug has written extensive, laudatory pieces on the courage and nobility of Robert E. Lee. Sherman, by contrast, has gotten short shrift. But don't take my word for it. Run a search through the back issues of Credenda Agenda; read Doug's various antebellum apologetics; check out the Vision 2020 archives. You don't need to be Madame Blavatsky to know where Doug stands on Robert E. Lee. If I had the time or the inclination, I'd run a count to see who Doug cites more, Jesus Christ or the General.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just for the hell of it, Mr. Ryan, why don't you try explaining why you think Paul Kimmell chose Robert E. Lee for this leadership retreat? Why did he distribute materials embossed with the Confederate battle flag? It seems to me that your options are limited. Political tone-deafness. Idiocy. A genuine admiration for Lee's work for the Confederacy. Or a complete and utter disregard for the community climate and the Chamber's constituents. Ugly choices, all, I fear.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Putting away my tarot cards,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B> Ted Ryan</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 24, 2004 12:12 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Cc:</B> auntiestablishment@hotmail.com</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 3, Issue 131</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Mr. Kimmell did not choose? So you know what he had in mind there? You<BR>asked him? Or I am to believe that you know his thoughts? I also don't<BR>recall Doug Wilson saying Lee is his hero.<BR><BR>I think that the conversation about how high to jump asked of Mr. Wilson<BR>never happened. We all know that white men can't jump, and Mr. Kimmell is<BR>no exception.<BR><BR>I don't know how you people expect to attain peace when you are constantly<BR>putting words in peoples mouths and refer to others as puppets, etc. Is<BR>this really helping?<BR><BR>Ted Ryan<BR><BR>> Message: 4<BR>> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:42:09 -0700<BR>> From: "Joan Opyr" <auntiestablishment@hotmail.com><BR>> Subject: [Vision2020] The red herrings are beginning to smell<BR>> To: "Vision2020 Moscow" <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Message-ID: <BAY10-DAV4KCk5smn3s0002696e@hotmail.com><BR>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR><BR>...<BR>> Paul Kimmell did not choose Robert E. Lee because Lee's leadership offered<BR>lessons applicable >to businesspeople on the Palouse; he picked him because<BR>Lee is a hero of Doug Wilson's. He >picked him because the veneration of<BR>Lee is integral to the Christ Church political vision. Once >upon a time,<BR>when Doug Wilson said, "Jump," Paul Kimmell asked, "How high?" Now, sadly,<BR>he >asks, "Where's the cliff?"<BR>><BR>> Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer<BR>download : http://explorer.msn.com<BR>> -------------- next part --------------<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML><br clear=all><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href='http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>