[Vision2020] Triple murderer wants to take back pleas

Tue Oct 25 22:24:13 PDT 2016

The concept of "Free Will" is central to assigning moral culpability in
criminal behavior, or any behavior, for that matter.

Causal responsibility is undeniable, with enough evidence, but is not
necessarily the same as moral responsibility.

Just as we will muzzle, or fence in, or kill a dog that bites, the same
applies to humans who are caught committing crimes, thus jails and
prisons.  We do not need to assign moral responsibility to justify jail and
prison for those who are criminally inclined.  Retribution is a different
matter, often connected to intense claims of free willed evil.

But we don't usually assume dogs have moral responsibility, as in they
possess "free will" when they commit offensive
behaviors, as we think humans do.

However, an objective logical scientific analysis of the concept of "free
will" reveals, first, there is no consistently agreed upon definition of
what it is, from professional philosophers or theologians, often considered
experts on this issue.  Thus it is odd that so many people appear to be
experts on the matter, when they cannot give a coherent and defensible
account of what free will is, that stands up to competent counter analysis

And second, scientists studying the question have revealed that the concept
is highly questionable.  We are far from fully understanding the human
brain, for one thing.  And most brain activity is not conscious.  Our
vaunted "consciousness" has been revealed to be a very small part of what
is involved in the immensely complex neural patterns in the human brain
that cause behavior.

"Free will" obviously is social politically useful for managing human
behavior and creating the appearance of responsibility and enforcing
"guilt" to control people, and so forth...

Thus I have thought it is a socially useful illusion, perhaps best not done
away with in the minds of the hoi polloi.

Interesting article from "The Atlantic" on these issues:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/06/theres-no-such-thing-as-free-will/480750/
There’s No Such Thing as Free Will

But we’re better off believing in it anyway

June 2016 by Stephen Cave

----------------------------------------

Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:29 PM, Don Coombs <wildmushroomer at gmail.com>
wrote:

> To Tom:
>
> So I guess you think he was totally rational at the time of his crimes?
> Perhaps you think he committed the crimes for personal gain?
>
> To be perfectly clear, I don't believe either of those things and I have
> to agree with Saundra.
>
> Don Coombs
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> While I understand the sentiment, I completely disagree.  Serious mental
>> illness is a terrible thing, and the fact that Idaho doesn’t have an
>> insanity defense makes me ashamed of my state.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/08/05/48790996
>> 7/with-no-insanity-defense-seriously-ill-people-end-up-in-prison
>>
>>
>>
>> “Because Idaho has no insanity defense, defendants with mental illness
>> typically plead guilty to lesser charges and rely on judges to take mental
>> health into account at sentencing. Some lawyers and psychiatrists say this
>> doesn't provide enough protection against the death penalty or long
>> incarceration. As professor Aliza Cover
>> <https://www.uidaho.edu/law/people/faculty/alizac> of the University of
>> Idaho Law School explains, "In Idaho, you have the unusual circumstance
>> that someone who couldn't even be convicted in another state could be
>> executed."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra Lund
>>
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>>
>>
>> Compassion is the basis of all morality.
>>
>> ~ Arthur Schopenhuaer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at mos
>> cow.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Hansen
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 2:47 AM
>> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Triple murderer wants to take back pleas
>>
>>
>>
>> If it was up to me, I would permanently place photos of Lee's victims
>> (Terri Grzebielski, David Trail, and Belinda Niebuhr) in Lee's cell.  They
>> would be the first faces he sees every morning and the last faces he sees
>> every night . . . for the rest of his life!
>>
>>
>>
>> Courtesy of today's (October 25, 2016) Lewiston Tribune.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>>
>> Triple murderer wants to take back pleasJohn Lee says he didn't have
>> 'free will' when he agreed to deal in shooting deaths of adopted mother,
>> two others
>>
>>
>>
>> MOSCOW - A Moscow man convicted of killing three people last year is
>> asking to withdraw his guilty pleas.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Lee, 31, filed a two-page handwritten motion Monday arguing he was
>> "not in the right state of mind" when he entered the pleas. Lee is serving
>> a sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole for the
>> murders.
>>
>>
>>
>> He was sentenced in May for the January 2015 shooting spree that killed
>> his adoptive mother, Terri L. Grzebielski, 61; his landlord, David M.
>> Trail, 71; and Moscow Arby's manager Belinda G. Niebuhr, 47. Seattle
>> resident Michael M.M. Chin, 41, was also injured in the incident.
>>
>>
>>
>> As part of a plea agreement that Lee accepted in March, he entered Alford
>> pleas to three counts of first-degree murder and one count of aggravated
>> battery. By entering Alford pleas, Lee did not admit guilt but acknowledged
>> there was enough evidence to convict him.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the motion filed Monday in Latah County 2nd District Court, Lee argues
>> he was not mentally fit when he accepted the plea agreement in March and
>> when he was sentenced in May.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Noises were effecting (sic) my decision making and I didn't feel I had
>> free will," Lee wrote. "... Now that I am properly medicated mental health
>> problems will no longer interfere with my decision making."
>>
>>
>>
>> In an attached affidavit, also two pages long and handwritten, Lee adds
>> that he attempted to tell a member of his defense team that he was not
>> satisfied with the plea agreement a few days after accepting it.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I expressed that I felt that the guards and certain people were
>> pressuring me and in some instances torturing me to either confess or
>> accept a plea deal," Lee wrote.
>>
>>
>>
>> He argues that he said he wanted to withdraw the pleas, that he felt he
>> didn't have "free will" and that he didn't like the conditions of the plea
>> agreement, including the waiver of his right to appeal.
>>
>>
>>
>> "At that moment I started hearing noises which told me not to withdraw,"
>> Lee wrote.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to the document, Lee made it "abundantly clear" he wanted to
>> withdraw his pleas.
>>
>>
>>
>> "In my opinion my defense should have withdrawn my plea and had me
>> medicated so I could make rational decisions," Lee wrote.
>>
>>
>>
>> Defense attorneys Charles Kovis and Deborah McCormick represented Lee in
>> the case.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee's motion comes after a court decision last week that denied his
>> request for his sentence to be reduced. According to the ruling written by
>> Judge John R. Stegner, the plea agreement does not allow for modifications
>> to Lee's sentence.
>>
>>
>>
>> The plea agreement spared Lee from the death penalty. Despite its waiver
>> of his right to appeal, Lee has filed an appeal with the Idaho Supreme
>> Court and is awaiting a response.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lee is being held at the Idaho Maximum Security Institution in Kuna.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moscow Cares"
>>
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>>
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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