[Vision2020] Hitchin' Post (was: Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage ruling)

Wed Oct 22 13:09:46 PDT 2014

While I'm all for everyone's equal rights and whatnot, I'm at a loss to
figure out why anyone would *want* to get married at a place that held some
sort of opposition to my way of life?

On the other side of that coin, why would one want to exclude what seems
like a pretty good market at the moment, since so many folks seem to be
chomping at the bit to get married?

Pondering . . .

Your pal

DC

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 12:02 PM
To: 'vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage
ruling

For me, Otter's comments about the Hitching Post just show his election
desperation as well as some loss of functional brain cells.

We all know that quickie marriages like those performed (no pun intended) by
a for-profit business in scenic locations is a cornerstone of traditional
marriage, don't we?

I find it very telling that the "libertarian" Knapps don't give a rip about
marrying off children, people under the influence, "couples" who've known
each other less time than the blink of the eye, etc., but think (and I use
the term loosely) it appropriate to use their hateful bigotry to
discriminate against same-sex adult couples exercising their Constitutional
rights.  Disgusting.

Saundra

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Dredge
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2014 11:08 AM
To: Sunil
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage
ruling

This is a non-issue and it shows the fallacy of Otter's comments about the
Hitching Post.  Otter's claim of "I will continue defending Idahoans'
self-determination and the will of Idaho voters who decided that traditional
marriage is a core principle of our society" is in itself just a vote
getter.  He should know damn well that rights aren't subject to popular
vote, but he also probably knows that the voting public is too stupid to
grasp that fact either because they daydreamed (or flat out slept) through
civics class or just dropped out of high school before taking the class.

  _____  

From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:48:21 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage
ruling

Was that week-long hearing about the Coeur d'Alene ordinance? If not, I
won't be needing the CDS.

Here's what the City of Coeur d'Alene had to say on its facebook page
yesterday:

'The city of Coeur d'Alene has been contacted by a huge volume of people
inquiring about our anti-discrimination ordinance, passed in 2013 by the
City Council. These contacts have been a reaction to a lawsuit filed by the
owners of a local marriage chapel, the Hitching Post, which claims the city
has taken inappropriate action against their business for their decision to
not perform same-sex marriages. In fact, the city has received no complaints
about the Hitching Post and we have never threatened them. If we did get a
complaint we would investigate it like any other complaint to determine if
there is a legitimate violation of a city code. If we investigate it and
determine that they fall within our exemption for religious corporations, we
would not pursue it further because they would be exempt. At this point the
city is reviewing the complaint and hopes to more fully respond to the
allegations as quickly as possible.' (emphasis added)

Maybe they need the CDs?

Sunil

  _____  

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage
ruling
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 10:22:54 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

I say again, Mr. Ramalingam (emphasis added) . . . 

The Hitching Post is a for-profit business.  As such it is not legally
eligible for benefits associated with non-profit religious organizations . .
. benefits like non-compliance with city code . . . unless it controls the
city council (hmmm).

If you don't believe me, just ask the "management" of New Saint Andrews
College.  There was a hearing conducted in July 2004, before the Latah
County Board of Commissioners, between local complainants (Rose Huskey and
Saundra Lund) and respondents ("management" of Christ Church, New Saint
Andrews College, Logos School, etc.) concerning the respondents'
tax-exempt/for-profit status.

I have the nearly-a-week-long hearing online and on a series of CDs.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 22, 2014, at 9:57 AM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

No. See B(1) below, emphasis added.

9.56.040: EXCEPTIONS:
<http://www.sterlingcodifiers.com/codebook/getBookData.php?chapter_id=82509#
894073> link
<mailto:?subject=Coeur%20d%27Alene%20Code%20Regulations&body=Below%20is%20a%
20link%20to%20the%20City%20code%20which%20contains%20the%20information%20you
%20requested.%0D%0Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.sterlingcodifiers.com%2Fcodebook%2Findex
.php%3Fbook_id%3D603%26section_id%3D894073> link 

A. Notwithstanding any other provision herein, nothing in this chapter is
intended to alter or abridge other rights, protections, or privileges
secured under state and/or federal law. This chapter shall be construed and
applied in a manner consistent with first amendment jurisprudence regarding
the freedom of speech and exercise of religion.

B. This chapter does not apply to:

1. Religious corporations, associations, educational institutions, or
societies.

2. An expressive association whose employment of a person protected by this
chapter would significantly burden the association's rights of expressive
association under Boy Scouts Of America v. Dale, 530 U.S. 640 (2000).

3. The United States government, any of its departments or agencies, or any
corporation wholly owned by it; or the state of Idaho or any of its
departments, agencies, or political subdivisions, other than the city of
Coeur d'Alene.

C. This chapter shall not apply: 1) to the rental of a housing accommodation
in a building which contains housing accommodations for not more than two
(2) families living independently of each other, if the lessor or a member
of his family resides in one of the housing accommodations, or 2) to the
rental of a room or rooms in a single-family residential housing
accommodation by an individual if he or a member of his family resides
therein. (Ord. 3466, 2013)

  _____  

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2014 08:51:27 -0700
To: janesta at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage
ruling

The Hitching Post claims to be a religious entity.  

Yet, it is a for-profit business (so claims the Cd'A City Council).  As such
the Hitching Post is bound to, and must obey, local laws (city code in this
case) . . . including a Coeur d'Alene city code that stipulates that a
business cannot refuse service based on sexual orientation.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 22, 2014, at 8:22 AM, Janesta <janesta at gmail.com> wrote:

Butch needs to give it a rest.

The Hitching Post is a private business and should have the freedom and
right to serve whomever they want. There is a BOOMING business in Arizona
for "clearing houses" for business which same gender friendly. Perhaps
someone should start one in Coeur d' Alene

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

Courtesy of today's (October 22, 2014) Spokesman-Review.

-------------------------------------

Otter seeks full panel review of gay marriage ruling

BOISE - Idaho Gov. Butch Otter wants a larger group of judges to reconsider
the recent decision that overturned the state's ban on same-sex marriage. "I
will continue defending Idahoans' self-determination and the will of Idaho
voters who decided that traditional marriage is a core principle of our
society," Otter said.

The governor on Tuesday announced that he would file a petition seeking a
review at the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals by an 11-judge panel. A
three-judge panel made the earlier decision ruling that Idaho's ban on
same-sex marriage was unconstitutional. Otter and Idaho Attorney General
Lawrence Wasden earlier requested that the 9th Circuit assign a full
11-judge panel to hear Idaho's case, rather than a three-judge panel. That
request was denied. Wasden didn't join with Otter in Tuesday's petition. 

However, his spokesman, Todd Dvorak, said Wasden plans to file an appeal to
the U.S. Supreme Court in the coming weeks.

Deborah Ferguson, attorney for the four Idaho couples who successfully sued
to overturn Idaho's same-sex marriage ban, said, "If necessary, we will
continue to defend the District Court and 9th Circuit decision."

Otter, in a news release, warned of "increased religious strife" because
"unaccountable judges," not the "democratic process," were making the call
on gay marriage.

"One of the key arguments against the Idaho Constitution's defense of
traditional marriage has been that redefining it to include same-sex couples
would not harm anyone.  But the Hitching Post example shows the fallacy of
that position," he said.

The Hitching Post wedding chapel in Coeur d'Alene has filed a federal
lawsuit against the city of Coeur d'Alene, saying the city's
anti-discrimination ordinance would force its owners to perform marriages
that they object to on religious grounds. That prompted a fundamentalist
Christian group in Mississippi to claim that the city of Coeur d'Alene has
threatened to arrest the two ordained ministers who own the chapel - but
there was no such threat.

The city has asked that the lawsuit be withdrawn; the chapel recently filed
to become a religious corporation, which would exempt it from the city
ordinance.

Otter is in the midst of campaigning for a third term; his two leading
opponents, Democrat A.J. Balukoff and Libertarian John Bujak, oppose
continuing Idaho's court fight against same-sex marriage, which became legal
in Idaho last week.

-------------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

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since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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