[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 99, Issue 203

Wed Oct 1 04:05:36 PDT 2014

This posting may be long and detailed.  It serves merely to respond to Scott Dredge's comments.

If, after reading this post, you have further concern, please do not hesitate to ask.

That said, here it goes . . .

Scott Dredge announces:

"And I'll give you a hint that it's not Paul, Sunil, Darrell, Kai, Wayne, Gary, or anyone else who dare commit the ultimate sin of standing up to Tom when he violates this forum's posted mission statement that was adopted two decades ago."

Question, Mr. Dredge:  Huh?

FYI, Mr. Dredge, here is the Moscow Vision 2020 Mission Statement, something we V-Peeps have examined in excruciating detail before.

The Moscow Vision 2020 Mission Statement.

"Moscow Vision 2020 is a unmoderated email list.  There is no manager to delete, control, erase, change, or purge the messages sent to this community discussion forum or its archives.  Think of Vision 2020 as the soapbox in Hyde Park.  This list is only the vehicle that facilitates this public discourse, and no person or hosting ISP is responsible for the content."
Vision 2020 Mission Statement Adopted March 1995

To ensure that all parts of our community have an opportunity to take part in visualizing and planning for the community's future. 

To strengthen citizens' sense of community by promoting awareness, ownership and investment in Moscow's future. 

To foster cooperation among (and public involvement with) the agencies and organizations that plan for and make decisions about the future of Moscow and Latah County. 

To raise awareness on the part of citizens and public officials that: 

uncontrolled and unplanned growth may have negative effects. 

short-term decisions have long-term consequences.

To inform ourselves about growth and development issues. 

To have fun thinking critically and creatively.
-------------
OUR ACTIVITIES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO:

Promoting community dialogue on planning and growth issues through such diverse channels of communication as a discussion list on the Internet. 

Increasing knowledge of community-based planning techniques through study groups, workshops and guest speakers. 

Providing technical expertise and volunteer assistance to community groups and local agencies interested in applying community-based planning, such as the Latah County Planning and Zoning Commissions and the Shared Facilities Task Force. 

Involving the community, especially young people, in planning through such activities as tours, contests, simulation games and exhibits. 

Recruiting volunteers to monitor and report on meetings of public agencies as a way of increasing public knowledge of the decision-making process.
Vision 2020 has no bylaws, budget or membership requirements. Its activities are coordinated by a three-member steering committee chosen annually by consensus.

http://vision2020.moscow.com/mission.asp

-------------------------------

Concerning my "attack" on Walter Steed . . .

Here is exactly what was posted:

". . . Councilman Walter Steed
http://www.TomandRodna.com/Soundbites/Steed_Traffic_Control_110205.mp3 I got me LOTS of 'em, like . . . a sliced up and diced up city council video to the tune of The Wizard of Oz' "If I Only Had a Brain" starring one of the city council's re-newest members members (a transplant from the Corner Club) . . . and, of course, there's "The Kiss" (my personal favorite."
http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2014-September/098219.html
Where is the attack on Councilman Steed, Mr. Dredge?  
I used an actual recording of a segment of a Moscow City Council session, where Walter Steed suggests hourly speed limits for Moscow as a method to control traffic . . . immediately followed by a soundbite from "Leave It to Beaver" (an old 50s/60s show) where Beaver says to his brother, "Don't get all flakey, Wally."
-----------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

> On Oct 1, 2014, at 12:23 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I'm just curious Keely if you bothered to read through this entire below digest thread starting from the bottom of it where Tom refers to one of the city council members in the same vein of the Wizard of Oz tune 'if I only had a brain'.  Just why, pray tell, do I earn your admonishment here for voicing my opinion that I'm not all that thrilled for 'staying tuned' to reading any more of Tom's personal attacks against others in the community?!?
> 
> At this point, I will completely echo Paul Rumelhart's amazement about the double standard here on vision2020.  Paul gets tagged as being 'disgusting' for suggesting that Tom ridicules and makes jokes about others.  Darrell receives a bunch a hate mail for suggesting that V2020 be renamed to more accurately reflect it's misuse by Tom.  I get slammed for voicing my displeasure about Tom's attack on Walter Steed.
> 
> And you 'doubt seriously [you'll] be coming back to v2020 because you think people will be mean and nasty toward you?  There's only one single solitary person on v2020 who is mean and nasty and juvenile.  And I'll give you a hint that it's not Paul, Sunil, Darrell, Kai, Wayne, Gary, or anyone else who dare commit the ultimate sin of standing up to Tom when he violates this forum's posted mission statement that was adopted two decades ago.
> 
> From: siyocreo at live.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com; thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 18:16:32 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 99, Issue 203
> 
> I'm no longer on Vision 2020, and one of the reasons is because it didn't bring out the best in me ... and it also seemed like a chance to take gratuitous snark-shots at people. I'm all for spirited debate, even criticism, on an issue. I think I've shown that I can take it and I can dish it out.
> 
> But to just fart something out about a man and his work/efforts/behavior on Vision, as Scott did here? Not fair, and a reason why I doubt seriously I'll be coming back.  
> 
> Keely
> 
> 
> Prevailing Winds:  A Radical Gospel Shattering Patriarchy At Its Root
> Because when the times require outrage, your silence is assent
> www.keelyprevailingwinds.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 99, Issue 203
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 15:08:08 -0700
> > 
> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> > vision2020 at moscow.com
> > 
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > vision2020-request at moscow.com
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > vision2020-owner at moscow.com
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> > 1. Re: Fwd: A response (Scott Dredge)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:07:46 -0600
> > From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> > To: Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com>, Gary Crabtree
> > <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>
> > Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>, Walter Steed
> > <wmsteed at ci.moscow.id.us>
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: A response
> > Message-ID: <BLU175-W2292ECBEEA646759C5607DE4BB0 at phx.gbl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > 
> > Stay tuned for more 'bull-headed behavior' from Tom versus the alternative of tuning out and thus not wasting any more time repeatedly hitting the delete key.
> > 
> > From: moscowcares at moscow.com
> > Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 11:29:12 -0700
> > To: moscowlocksmith at gmail.com
> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; wmsteed at ci.moscow.id.us
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fwd: A response
> > 
> > Stay tuned . . .
> > 
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> > - John Lennon 
> > On Sep 30, 2014, at 11:21 AM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > "Posting to Vision 2020 reaches FAAAAAAARRRRR more people than public commentary at a city council session."
> > I'm rather skeptical about that but we'll leave that aside for now. The point of my comments to Paul where more directed to your mischaracterization of Walter's remarks from your e-mail communication, to wit: 
> > "His argument, apparently, is that any adverse comments I make about him (even when such statements are substantiated) should not be aired publicly without initially presenting my comments to him off-list and in-person."
> > (Translation: Mr. Steed does not want anything bad stated or suggested about him publicly . . . only privately.)
> > Interesting rhetorical strategy. Provide a translation of your own faulty paraphrasing. 
> > After reading the exchange you provided between Walt and yourself, it's clear that the only thing that he insists upon is that he will not go back and forth on V2020 with half wits with an abundance of time on their hands. This strikes me as prudent.
> > g
> > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
> > Posting to Vision 2020 reaches FAAAAAAARRRRR more people than public commentary at a city council session. 
> > However, I will consider bringing future complaints before the city council if I feel they would receive appropriate attention . . . something sadly missing from our current city council (more videos on this later).
> > 
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> > - John Lennon 
> > On Sep 30, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > The way I read Mr. Steed's remarks to Tom, I am sure he (Walt) would agree with you. Nowhere in the back and forth of the communication did I read anything that implied that that anyone needed to run criticism by the councilman before making their ill informed opinions public. What I read was that he would simply not respond to sniping from the cheap seats of V2020. This seems a reasonable position to take. Lets face it, life is far too short to spend very much of it responding to casual sniping from those with an abundance of time on their hands. Should they feel a burning desire to have their concerns addressed publicly, they can attend the council meetings and pipe up for the record.
> > g
> > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 8:32 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> wrote:
> > While I agree completely that you should be able to voice your opinions about Walter Steed without having to run them by him first, I also think that you probably shouldn't have forwarded your private email exchange with him on this list, since it's apparent that he wouldn't want you to. I don't think any laws were broken (though I'm damn tempted to cc the Chief of Police just to make sure ;) ) but I do think it is bad etiquette. You could have simply summarized your conversation.
> > 
> > Paul
> > 
> > And, before we go there, I am *not* trying to trample on your rights and I don't expect you to change your bull-headed behavior any more than you have in the past.
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, Sep 30, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > V-Peeps:
> > I have been debating whether or not to publicly disclose an email interaction I had recently with Walter Steed, a member of the Moscow City Council. Lacking a response from Mr. Steed, in reply to my most-recent email to him, I have decided to air it publicly and allow the fine peeps of the Viz to form their own opinion, as this argument concerns a very basic right granted to us by our constitution . . . 
> > His argument, apparently, is that any adverse comments I make about him (even when such statements are substantiated) should not be aired publicly without initially presenting my comments to him off-list and in-person.
> > (Translation: Mr. Steed does not want anything bad stated or suggested about him publicly . . . only privately.)
> > Two concepts that Mr. Steed has difficulty grasping are . . . my right to publicly state my opinion without having to initially pursue his approval . . . my right to disclose my opinion publicly in the form of political satire (a method used universally).
> > Moscow Vision 2020 is, as described in an interview of myself and Keely Emerine-Mix conducted at Friendship Square by the Moscow-Pullman Daily News some years back, an online community soapbox open to everyone.
> > So . . .
> > No, Mr. Steed. I am not going to quietly and privately seek you out every time I have an opinion I wish to express. I will post them on a publicly accessible digital bulletin board (i.e. Moscow Vision 2020). If people, such as yourself, find my postings to be snide and sniping, they may either ignore them or respond publicly to them.
> > Until then . . .
> > Stay tuned.
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> > "Moscow Cares"http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho 
> > Begin forwarded message:
> > 
> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> > Date: September 27, 2014 at 2:27:21 PM PDT
> > To: Walter M Steed <wmsteed at ci.moscow.id.us>
> > Subject: Re: A response
> > 
> > Fine. Point taken.
> > However, publicly elected officials (whether they be a member of the Moscow City Council or President of the United States) have been, are, and will always be targets of political satire, whether that satire is launched from Fox News or a subscriber to Vision 2020.
> > In my twenty years in the Army, I have been called everything but Tom. I learned to live with it (even expect it in some circumstances). How about you? Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> > 
> > On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:15 PM, Walter M Steed <wmsteed at ci.moscow.id.us> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have no problem with the public arena as I understand what it entails and the exposure it brings. My complaint is not what you say about me or even that you say it; it's the way in which you chose to do it. I stopped reading 2020 years ago when you
> > started injecting uninformed opinions on every topic under the sun and I just couldn't take it anymore. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I do, however, periodically get told about your snide, sniping, personal attacks with no effort at all having been made on your part to let me know whatever it is you don't like about me or what I have done or said. Criticism for the sake of criticism
> > is unproductive (unless stroking the ego of the critic is the goal).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Ever since my first election I have had a personal policy of responding to all direct contacts (just not the letter-to-the-editor or 2020 directed). 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you have any specific questions, comments, or concerns, please just address them to directly to me and I'll be happy to provide you a response. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > WS
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPad
> > 
> > 
> > On Sep 27, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Mr. Steed -
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yesterday, the "Ellen and 'Pops' Roskovich Bench Dedication Ceremony" was not the appropriate location or time to debate politics with you, as it appeared was your intent.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > That said . . .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > As a private citizen, I reserve the right to discuss my political opinions publicly (humorous or not), as I did on Thursday in a posting to the Moscow Vision 2020 listserve (below). There will be more forthcoming.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you are offended by such postings, perhaps you should avoid the public arena as a city council member.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > If you wish to publicly discuss my expressed opinions, please let me know. Otherwise . . .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Stay tuned.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Begin forwarded message:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
> > 
> > Date: September 25, 2014 at 12:46:21 PM PDT
> > 
> > To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > 
> > Subject: A traffic control suggestion as presented by . . .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > . . . Councilman Walter Steed
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.TomandRodna.com/Soundbites/Steed_Traffic_Control_110205.mp3
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I got me LOTS of 'em, like . . . a sliced up and diced up city council video to the tune of
> > The Wizard of Oz' "If I Only Had a Brain" starring one of the city council's re-newest members members (a transplant from the Corner Club) . . . and, of course, there's "The Kiss" (my personal favorite.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Later, V-Peeps.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I gots to get tomorrow's "Who Dat?" photo together.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> > 
> > 
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> > But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
> > If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - John Lennon
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > 
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > 
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > 
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > 
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > 
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > 
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > 
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > 
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > =======================================================
> > 
> > 
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 99, Issue 203
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