[Vision2020] Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor under alleged care of Moscow couple
Paul Rumelhart
paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
Thu Jul 24 09:50:02 PDT 2014
Sorry, not sure where I got those numbers from. No caffeine yet this
morning. My main points were that nothing has been proven yet and that
money is fungible.
Paul
On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
wrote:
> Paul - Your numbers may be off in the wrong direction. Saundra's point
> was that the bails were set at $10,000 and $5,000 and bonding out would
> respectively be $1,000 and & $500. Allegedly they fleeced their victim of
> $50,000.
>
> -Scott
>
> On Jul 24, 2014, at 8:22 AM, "Paul Rumelhart" <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Not trying to start an argument here, but I would politely point out with
> regards to their using that $100,000 for bail money that I think we are
> putting the cart before the horse. We may think we know what happened, and
> we might end up being right, but nothing has been proven in court yet so as
> far as I'm aware they can use that money for bail if they so desire. Also,
> money is fungible. They can pay their $15,000 with money they received from
> selling their car or whatever, and buy themselves another car with the
> $100,000. Or just move money around in accounts as they see fit.
>
> I don't know why they aren't charging them with negligent homicide or
> something similar, either.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> wrote:
>
>> I don’t believe the female defendant was in Latah County when she was
>> arrested – I think she was picked up in Bingham County. Note: I’m *not*
>> saying she fled to avoid charges (she appears to have waived extradition
>> back to Latah County). Mr. Pohrman died in November and charges weren’t
>> filed until just recently, so I don’t think we can assume anything from the
>> fact that she wasn’t still in Latah County.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunil, I’ve got a question I’m hoping you (or anyone else) can answer for
>> me. I understand that the purpose of bail is to ensure that the defendant
>> will appear as required, but does the State have any interest in or rules
>> about where bail money can come from? Or, does the Court only care that
>> the bail is paid?
>>
>>
>>
>> In this instance, the accused allegedly raided their victim’s bank
>> account(s) to the tune of $50,000 or so. Since each of their bail amounts
>> are astonishingly low ($5000 for her; $10,000 for him – the cost of a bond
>> is usually in the neighborhood of 10%, assuming it doesn’t wind up being
>> forfeited, in which case the accused has to pay the whole amount), does the
>> Court care if they used the money they stole from poor dead Mr. Pohrman to
>> post bond? I’m *not* saying that’s what happened – I’m just wondering
>> if that’s anything the State cares about?
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, for everyone who is horrified that a vulnerable elderly man was *tortured
>> to death* (forced starvation qualifies as torture in my book), be aware
>> the *neither of the accused has been charged with Mr. Pohrman’s death.*
>> Both have been charged with abuse, exploitation, or neglect of a vulnerable
>> adult:
>>
>>
>>
>> 18-1505. Abuse, exploitation or neglect of a vulnerable adult. (1) Any
>> person who abuses or neglects a vulnerable adult *under circumstances
>> likely to produce great bodily harm or death* is guilty of a felony
>> punishable by imprisonment for not more than ten (10) years and not more
>> than a twenty-five thousand dollar ($25,000) fine.
>>
>>
>>
>> The tragic fact that Mr. Pohrman actually *died* from the
>> abuse/exploitation/neglect doesn’t seem to matter, at least based on the
>> charges filed. I don’t understand that one bit and I’m really very, very
>> unhappy that a poor vulnerable man is now dead.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also do *not* understand how someone on *felony probation* was able to
>> torture poor Mr. Pohrman to death over a period of months. I’m just
>> absolutely sick at the thought that had the PO showed up at the home,
>> perhaps Mr. Pohrman could have been saved. There’s something very, very
>> wrong with this picture.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Saundra
>>
>> Moscow, ID
>>
>>
>>
>> The least I can do is speak out for those who cannot speak out for
>> themselves.
>>
>> ~ Jane Goodall
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
>> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Sunil
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 4:08 PM
>> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor
>> under alleged care of Moscow couple
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not saying this isn't tragic. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't
>> have the ability to bond out.
>>
>> They may well plead guilty or be convicted. That's the time to punish
>> them, not now. The investigation started in November and it doesn't appear
>> that they fled before the warrants were issued.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:47:25 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor under
>> alleged care of Moscow couple
>> From: janesta at gmail.com
>> To: thansen at moscow.com
>> CC: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>
>>
>> *heart CRACKS in two*
>>
>> Please excuse me.. This upsets me so much, I can't think straight enough
>> to speak concisely and clearly.
>>
>> Growing up in a nursing home my parents owned, and having spent most of
>> my life working with disabled, elderly, or an infirm population I am pissed
>> beyond belief.. One doesn't need have the experience I have with an at risk
>> population to see this is nothing short of torturous murder.
>>
>> This gentleman was found NUDE and dead in his kitchen? The alleged perps
>> of the crime are out on BAIL!?!? Did not anyone notice? Of course not, or
>> he would be alive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunil, this felony involved the DEATH of a human being. These two people,
>> rich or poor should not be out on bail. Where are they now??
>>
>> Long gone are the days of Jay Shelledy and great reporting. Where the
>> HELL was the Daily News on this story???
>>
>> Janesta
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just those being charged with violent crimes, Sunil . . . ESPECIALLY if
>> there is a death involved.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>>
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>>
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>>
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>>
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 2:41 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Why do you want them locked up Tom? Do you want to lock up everyone
>> facing felonies? Or should only poor people lose their freedom when facing
>> charges?
>>
>> As a public defender I had lots of clients facing felonies who were out
>> on bail. With very few exceptions they all appeared. The few who didn't
>> were soon back in custody.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> Sunil
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> From: thansen at moscow.com
>> Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 14:31:03 -0700
>> To: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor under
>> alleged care of Moscow couple
>>
>> I would be VERY interested in the amount of the bond that made it so easy
>> for these worms to gain their freedom.
>>
>>
>>
>> What are the odds that these worms aren't even in the state of Idaho, let
>> alone Latah County? We're talking multiple felonies, amounting to 15+
>> years in prison. Prosecutions that even I can get convictions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>>
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>>
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>>
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>>
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 23, 2014, at 1:51 PM, "Rosemary Huskey" <
>> donaldrose at cpcinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> This is heartbreaking. Why wasn’t this covered by the (pretend) local
>> newspaper?
>> Rose Huskey
>>
>>
>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [
>> mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Tom Hansen
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 23, 2014 12:40 PM
>> *To:* Moscow Vision 2020
>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor under
>> alleged care of Moscow couple
>>
>>
>>
>> Courtesy of Pullman Radio at:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.pullmanradio.com/moscow-man-dies-of-starvation-in-squalor-under-alleged-care-of-moscow-couple/
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> *Moscow man dies of starvation in squalor under alleged care of Moscow
>> couple*
>>
>>
>>
>> A Moscow couple who were supposed to care for a vulnerable adult
>> allegedly let the man starve to death in filthy living conditions. 21 year
>> old Lindsey Winter and 24 year old Charles Wright have been charged with
>> neglecting a vulnerable adult resulting in a death, exploitation of a
>> vulnerable adult and welfare fraud. The case began on November third when
>> Moscow Police responded to an unconscious male inside a trailer home on
>> Brent Drive. Officers found 67 year old Lee Pohrman naked on the kitchen
>> floor. Pohrman was later pronounced dead at Gritman Medical Center in
>> Moscow. The cause of death was determined to be months of malnutrition.
>> Officers say Pohrman was living in conditions so filthy that they became
>> nauseous inside the trailer. Pohrman was covered in bed sores and doctors
>> determined his nails hadn’t been trimmed in a year. Winter and Wright were
>> supposed to be taking care of Pohrman starting in February of 2011. Wright
>> spoke with Moscow Detectives and reportedly stated that Pohrman was to pay
>> them 400 dollars a month for care giving. Investigators then determined
>> that the couple allegedly removed nearly 50 thousand dollars from Pohrman’s
>> account. That’s roughly five times more than the amount they were to be
>> paid to care for the man who died in squalor inside their home. Moscow
>> Police also say the couple committed fraud in receiving nearly eleven
>> thousand dollars in food stamps while not reporting income for taking care
>> of Pohrman. Pohrman’s Doctor says he suffered from bipolar disorder and
>> needed constant care. Neither Winter nor Wright had any training for
>> caregiving. Wright reportedly admitted to Moscow Police in an interview
>> that he “Did a piss poor job.” when referring to his care of Pohrman in the
>> time before his death. The only significant connection between the couple
>> and Pohrman is that Winter is described as a family friend. Both were
>> arrested on the felony counts after they were recently charged in Latah
>> County Second District Court. The couple has since posted bond. Winter is
>> scheduled to have a court hearing Wednesday afternoon while Wright is
>> scheduled to have his preliminary hearing later this month.
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> <image001.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>>
>>
>> "Moscow Cares"
>>
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>>
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
>>
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