[Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
Paul Rumelhart
godshatter at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 1 17:23:39 PDT 2014
It's statements like these that I'm objecting to:
"...of course it's of no consequence to *you* that..."
"...but it's good to know you belong in the "tyranny of the bigots"
category..."
"...why on earth should you care that..."
Are they really necessary? Can't we discuss the issues without getting
personal?
In response to your question, when I look at my latest pay stub (posted
for the 3rd of June), I see a line item for "Employer Contribution for
Benefits". It's about $350 in my case, paid by the employer per biweek.
I also see employer amounts for "Pre-Tax Health Savings Account" (their
match for the amount I'm putting in my HSA), and "Long" and "Short Term
Disability Coverage". Also Medicare, but all employers have to pay FHI
if I remember correctly.
Paul
On 07/01/2014 01:44 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
> I was hoping we could actually discuss your thinking without you
> playing your predictable "why is everybody always picking on me" card
> to avoid discussing statements you make that you want us to just
> blindly accept. I don't think pointing out the flaws, limitations,
> and obvious conclusions of your thinking are personal insults, but I'm
> sorry if your sensitivities made you feel as though they were because
> that wasn't my intention.
>
> Just as, I assume, you weren't intending to personally insult those of
> us with concerns about guns on campus by calling our concerns
> "irrational fears," or a lot of other comments you've made that might
> have felt like personal attacks if you were on the receiving end.
> What's that saying? Something about people in glass houses . . .
>
> So, let's try this *one* point again:
>
> Paul wrote:
>
> "It's subsidized by everyone who pays into it, plus what the employer
> pays."
>
> My response is that your statement is incorrect:
>
> "The last time I checked, *my husband and I *paid 100% of the cost of
> *my* health insurance through the UI, and that's the way it was for
> all state employees the last time I checked. That's been the trend,
> too, with private sector employer-based health insurance for a *number
> of years*, as well as eroding the percentage of employer subsidy for
> the employee. Indeed, there are more than a few employers who offer
> absolutely no health insurance subsidy for employees -- their position
> is that their "subsidy" is allowing the employee the benefit of being
> a part of a larger group that gets a lower rate."
>
> What say you?
>
> Saundra
>
> *From:*Paul Rumelhart [mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 01, 2014 1:07 PM
> *To:* Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
>
> Well, I was hoping we could discuss this without the personal insults.
>
> Paul
>
> On 07/01/2014 12:21 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>
> Paul wrote:
>
> "It's subsidized by everyone who pays into it, plus what the
> employer pays."
>
> Boy, you sure are out of touch with how modern employer-based
> health insurance is paid! Keep current, Paul, rather than
> disseminate long outdated sound bites.
>
> The last time I checked, *my husband and I *paid 100% of the cost
> of *my* health insurance through the UI, and that's the way it was
> for all state employees the last time I checked. That's been the
> trend, too, with private sector employer-based health insurance
> for a *number of years*, as well as eroding the percentage of
> employer subsidy for the employee. Indeed, there are more than a
> few employers who offer absolutely no health insurance subsidy for
> employees -- their position is that their "subsidy" is allowing
> the employee the benefit of being a part of a larger group that
> gets a lower rate.
>
> Paul also wrote:
>
> "I don't see a problem with a small group of "close-knit" people
> with similar beliefs objecting to something they feel goes against
> their religious beliefs."
>
> Of course you don't, but it's good to know you belong in the
> "tyranny of the bigots" category that thinks that anyone should be
> able to impose their religious beliefs on those with different
> beliefs, which certainly contradicts a lot of the positions you've
> stated on V2020. I'm in the category of thinking that people are
> free to believe whatever they want, but they don't have the right
> to force their religious beliefs on me.
>
> Too, why on earth should you care that about 90% of companies in
> America responsible for employing approximately 52% of working
> Americans qualify as "small closely-held" companies that can now
> use wholly false religious bigotry to deny access to necessary
> health care for female employees and employees with female family
> members? That may be the America you want to live in, but it
> isn't the one the majority of Americans want to live in.
>
> Paul also wrote:
>
> "Especially when the consequence is to pay for a specific
> contraceptive yourself."
>
> Once again, your gender ignorance and economic insensitivity would
> be stunning had you not exhibited them so many times before.
>
> Yes, the American way is to force female crime victims to bear the
> cost of being raped by men, isn't it, Paul, and that religious
> American ideal should be preserved at all costs, shouldn't it?
> It's also the American way relegate "immoral" women to forced
> breeder status when they have sex, isn't it?
>
> And, of course it's of no consequence to *you* that the cost of an
> IUD for women for whom that form of birth control is most
> appropriate is about a month's wage for lower paid employees
> without health insurance . . . or for plans that exclude coverage
> for women. That may be economically feasible for *you* since
> *you* don't fall into that category, but here's a news flash for
> you: that is as financially impossible for many women,
> particularly women who have children to feed & clothe. Yet you
> find it appropriate for religious bigots to punish women &
> children in an attempt to coerce "moral" behavior out of those
> uppity women.
>
> Of course, a viable alternative *might have been* to direct those
> women to non-profit family planning clinics like Planned
> Parenthood where contraceptives are more affordable. At least,
> that *might* have been a viable alternative before the Religious
> Right started its war on women. Oops -- guess that's not a viable
> alternative for a lot of women anymore.
>
> Saundra
>
> Moscow, ID
>
> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that
> matter.
>
> ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Rumelhart
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 01, 2014 9:05 AM
> *To:* Sunil; vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> Yes, you're right. It's not free. It's subsidized by everyone
> who pays into it, plus what the employer pays. I don't see a
> problem with a small group of "close-knit" people with similar
> beliefs objecting to something they feel goes against their
> religious beliefs. Especially when the consequence is to pay for
> a specific contraceptive yourself. It's not like they are
> objecting to open-heart surgery.
>
> Is having the ability to get health care in general from your
> employer a basic human right? Is the ability to have your
> contraceptives in general or the "morning after" pill in specific
> as a part of your health plan offered at work a basic human right?
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 1, 2014 8:22 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> Paul,
>
> Is your UI healthcare free or is it part of your employment
> compensation?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 08:03:00 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>
> Which right is being restricted, a woman's right to free
> contraceptives?
>
> Paul
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
> *To:* vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 1, 2014 6:07 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> I couldn't disagree more.
>
> Roe recognized a woman's right to privacy. Hobby Lobby creates
> religious rights for legal fictions, and restricts the rights of
> flesh-and-blood people. HL is not about restricting the power of
> government and it's naive to think that's its objective. If the
> government were restricting birth control, as it once did, this
> majority would have no objection to that exercise of government power.
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: scooterd408 at hotmail.com <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>;
> donaldrose at cpcinternet.com <mailto:donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>;
> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2014 01:20:24 -0600
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> Comparing Burwell v Hobby to Roe v Wade I don't see inconsistency
> in rulings. In both cases the rulings restricted the power of the
> government.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> To: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com
> <mailto:donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 17:14:44 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> Great points, Rose, and I'm afraid I agree with your assessment.
> Thank you for pointing out the obvious even if it's uncomfortable
> some.
>
> It's long past time for SCOTUS to have to adhere to the same code
> of ethics federal judges must adhere to.
>
> Saundra
>
> *From:*vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
> <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
> [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Rosemary Huskey
> *Sent:* Monday, June 30, 2014 2:49 PM
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> *Subject:* [Vision2020] A fine point, perhaps.
>
> Bias, or perhaps I should say, a predisposition, to adopt a
> certain philosophical approach to legal issues may be shaped by
> private values that we trust and hold dear. In light of the
> Supreme Court decision supporting the Hobby Lobby owners refusal
> to provide forms of birth control they claim to be at odds with
> their religious beliefs, I wondered if the court was persuaded
> not by legal arguments but by their own religious affiliations.
> Were any of the five male justices associated with religious
> groups that uphold the doctrine of patriarchy, i.e., do they
> attend churches that deny women ministerial or priesthood roles.
> Guess what? Justice Roberts, Justice Scalia, Justice Thomas, and
> Justice Alito are Roman Catholic.
>
> In contrast, when the decision concerning Roe v Wade was announced
> in 1973 eight of the nine male justices were members of main
> stream Protestant churches. There may or may not be a direct
> correlation between religion affiliation and legal opinions, but
> it is my firm belief that unearned gender privilege nurtured in
> the cradle, and deferred to in the church certainly creates an
> atmosphere that celebrates and bestows unique privilege for male
> members. And, what could possibly more be patriarchal than
> controlling women's reproductive choices?
>
> Rose Huskey
>
>
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