[Vision2020] Children and weapons

Thu Aug 28 13:41:21 PDT 2014

Clearly this qualifies for a Darwin Award. 
Poor little girl though.

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Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 11:14 AM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 98, Issue 217

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children    Firing
      Military Weapons (Saundra Lund)
   2. Re: Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children    Firing
      Military Weapons (Tom Hansen)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:52:33 -0700
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: "'Paul Rumelhart'" <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>, "'Tom Hansen'"
    <thansen at moscow.com>
Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of
    Children    Firing Military Weapons
Message-ID: <016c01cfc2e8$d9342c30$8b9c8490$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Paul,

In part, you wrote:

?You don't start them out on fully automatic weapons with a large kick, though.  That was irresponsible of the parents and doubly so of the instructor.?

What makes you think she was started out on a fully automatic firearm?  Aren?t you jumping to conclusions about that, or have you read news coverage I?ve missed (which is certainly a possibility)?  Please feel free to share any links that report that the Uzi was the young girl?s first handling of a firearm.

And, while I completely agree with you about the irresponsibility of the parents (although I go further and think they absolutely should be charged with the damage they?ve done to an innocent little girl), I?m less inclined to agree with you in your victim blaming of the dead instructor.  It?s the shooting range?s moronic owner/operator (survival of the fittest has clearly failed there) who made the policy that allows children as young as eight to fire automatic firearms, and as a mere employee, I seriously doubt Mr. Vacca had any choice about declining to let the little girl shoot.  Sure, he could have quit and he would still be alive, but it seems to me it?s the range ? and regulations that allow that kind of insanity ? that are at fault, not a hardworking man who was just trying to earn a legal living.

Saundra

Moscow, ID

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:03 AM
To: Tom Hansen
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons

Why do you hide Borowitz reports behind obfuscated urls?

Just for the record, I'm all for teaching kids how to fire weapons and, more to the point, how to be responsible around them.  That's typically where you learn to treat every weapon as if it's loaded and the safety is off.  You don't start them out on fully automatic weapons with a large kick, though.  That was irresponsible of the parents and doubly so of the instructor.

I would rather have children learn a) how to use and respect a firearm in order to reduce accidents and b) not to be afraid of them or (worse) to only be exposed to them through movies.

Paul

On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> > wrote:

Courtesy of the New Yorker at:

http://tinyurl.com/Children-and-Military-Weapons

-------------------------------------

Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons

WASHINGTON?Across the United States on Wednesday, a heated national debate began on the extremely complex issue of children firing military weapons.

?Every now and then, the nation debates an issue that is so complicated and tricky it defies easy answers,? says pollster Davis Logsdon. ?Letting small children fire automatic weapons is such an issue.?

Logsdon says that the thorny controversy is reminiscent of another ongoing national debate, about whether it is a good idea to load a car with dynamite and drive it into a tree.

?Many Americans think it?s a terrible idea, but others believe that with the correct supervision, it?s perfectly fine,? he says. ?Who?s to say who?s right??

Similar, he says, is the national debate about using a flamethrower indoors. ?There has been a long and contentious national conversation about this,? he says. ?It?s another tough one.?

Much like the long-running national debates about jumping off a roof, licking electrical sockets, and gargling with thumbtacks, the vexing question of whether children should fire military weapons does not appear headed for a swift resolution.

?Like the issue of whether you should sneak up behind a bear and jab it with a hot poker, this won?t be settled any time soon,? he says.

-------------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares"

<http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 11:13:57 -0700
From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of
    Children    Firing Military Weapons
Message-ID: <DB6CE5EF-E4D3-4555-8D5B-56B6B0849165 at moscow.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

For your next family outing, take the li'l 'uns to . . . 

http://bulletsandburgers.com

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

> On Aug 28, 2014, at 10:52 AM, "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> wrote:
> 
> Hi Paul,
>  
> In part, you wrote:
> ?You don't start them out on fully automatic weapons with a large kick, though.  That was irresponsible of the parents and doubly so of the instructor.?
>  
> What makes you think she was started out on a fully automatic firearm?  Aren?t you jumping to conclusions about that, or have you read news coverage I?ve missed (which is certainly a possibility)?  Please feel free to share any links that report that the Uzi was the young girl?s first handling of a firearm.
>  
> And, while I completely agree with you about the irresponsibility of the parents (although I go further and think they absolutely should be charged with the damage they?ve done to an innocent little girl), I?m less inclined to agree with you in your victim blaming of the dead instructor.  It?s the shooting range?s moronic owner/operator (survival of the fittest has clearly failed there) who made the policy that allows children as young as eight to fire automatic firearms, and as a mere employee, I seriously doubt Mr. Vacca had any choice about declining to let the little girl shoot.  Sure, he could have quit and he would still be alive, but it seems to me it?s the range ? and regulations that allow that kind of insanity ? that are at fault, not a hardworking man who was just trying to earn a legal living.
>  
>  
>  
> Saundra
> Moscow, ID
>  
> Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
> ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
>  
>  
>  
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2014 9:03 AM
> To: Tom Hansen
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons
>  
> Why do you hide Borowitz reports behind obfuscated urls?
> 
> Just for the record, I'm all for teaching kids how to fire weapons and, more to the point, how to be responsible around them.  That's typically where you learn to treat every weapon as if it's loaded and the safety is off.  You don't start them out on fully automatic weapons with a large kick, though.  That was irresponsible of the parents and doubly so of the instructor.
> 
> I would rather have children learn a) how to use and respect a firearm in order to reduce accidents and b) not to be afraid of them or (worse) to only be exposed to them through movies.
> 
> Paul
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Courtesy of the New Yorker at:
>  
> http://tinyurl.com/Children-and-Military-Weapons
>  
> -------------------------------------
> Nation Debates Extremely Complex Issue of Children Firing Military Weapons
> WASHINGTON?Across the United States on Wednesday, a heated national debate began on the extremely complex issue of children firing military weapons.
> 
> ?Every now and then, the nation debates an issue that is so complicated and tricky it defies easy answers,? says pollster Davis Logsdon. ?Letting small children fire automatic weapons is such an issue.?
> 
> Logsdon says that the thorny controversy is reminiscent of another ongoing national debate, about whether it is a good idea to load a car with dynamite and drive it into a tree.
> 
> ?Many Americans think it?s a terrible idea, but others believe that with the correct supervision, it?s perfectly fine,? he says. ?Who?s to say who?s right??
> 
> Similar, he says, is the national debate about using a flamethrower indoors. ?There has been a long and contentious national conversation about this,? he says. ?It?s another tough one.?
> 
> Much like the long-running national debates about jumping off a roof, licking electrical sockets, and gargling with thumbtacks, the vexing question of whether children should fire military weapons does not appear headed for a swift resolution.
> 
> ?Like the issue of whether you should sneak up behind a bear and jab it with a hot poker, this won?t be settled any time soon,? he says.
> 
> -------------------------------------
> 
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>  
> "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>  
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>  
>  
> 
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>  
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