[Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

Tue Aug 26 12:19:50 PDT 2014

Hi Rose,

That's a good question I, too, am interested in.

With respect to private property, I can certainly understand a private
property owner calling the police to have trespassers removed. 

But with public property paid for by the taxpayers?  That seems much more
problematic to me.  On live streaming from one of the St Louis local news
channels, I watched an elected state representative physically barred from
entering a St. Louis county government building by LE, likely at the behest
of the beleaguered St. Louis County prosecutor.  She was eventually allowed
entry, but that kind of behavior is extremely concerning to me.

I don't know the details Ms. Epstein's arrest, but one can't help but wonder
if the same governor who called in the National Guard thinks the
Constitutional protections of others apply only when convenient for him.  If
that's the case, it seems to be a sentiment shared by much of the white
power in that area.

And, while Scott reminds me of a petulant two-year-old screwing his eyes
shut, sticking his fingers in his ears, and shouting "race bating" whenever
discussions here about the reality of racism in the US happen on the Viz,
I'm going to make a couple of additional observations.

Isn't it interesting how a bunch of white miscreants from all over the
country - complete with their firearms - rushed to the defense of  white
lying thief Cliven Bundy to protect his non-rights to steal from all of us
for year after year after year yet not a single one of them showed up in
Ferguson to protect the actual infringement of the Constitutional rights of
a largely black population?  Heck, no - they aren't a racist bunch, are
they?

And, isn't it also interesting that contrary to the claims of the 2A freaks
that "those people" are a lawless bunch responsible for all the illegal
firearms that "no one cares about when they kill each other," that the
occupation of Ferguson wasn't met by massive armed resistance from "those
people?"

And, didn't you love listening to the entitled fat white male mayor of
Ferguson proclaim that there's no racial divide in his town?  Had his
tone-deafness not been so delusional, it would have been funny as hell.

I know some people want us to lose sight of the undisputed fact that a big
white police officer shot to death an unarmed black young man, but all the
whining in the world isn't going to stop me from caring about it.  If I was
interested in living in a country where it's acceptable for men in uniforms
to kill unarmed people, there are lots of places in the world where that's
the case, but the United States of America isn't one of those places.
Period.

Saundra

Moscow, ID

Not to hurt our humble brethren is our first duty to them, but to stop there
is not enough.  We have a higher mission -- to be of service to them
whereever they require it.

~ Francis of Assisi

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Rosemary Huskey
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 8:41 PM
To: 'Scott Dredge'; 'Tom Hansen'
Cc: 'viz'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

Hi Scott,

I'm confused.  What law did she break?  Did she have a right to peaceful
assembly - even if the police department didn't like that she chose to
exercise that right?  Or, is it the case that a police order to disperse
carries the weight of a law?  Maybe one of the attorneys on V2020 can help
me to understand the issue.

Rose

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dredge
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 8:10 PM
To: Tom Hansen
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

She said 'I was very calm' which is tantamount saying 'I [felt] very calm'.
Oh...kayyy?

Beyond that, is there a point to this story?  Old woman knowingly breaks law
and is arrested.  It's not really ground breaking news.  Are the police
supposed to be mind readers that she's a holocaust survivor and then give
her a a free pass?

  _____  

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson
From: thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> 
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:23:57 -0700
CC: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> ;
vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> 
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com <mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com> 

That does not explain how Hedy Epstein felt or what she was thinking.  

It merely explains WHAT SHE AND THE POLICE DID, ok?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 25, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com
<mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com> > wrote:

Tom writes:
<I can hardly imagine how Hedy Epstein felt, and what she was thinking, when
she was arrested.>

She offers up detailed a detailed first hand account into how she felt.
[Hedy Epstein] said. "This time I was very calm. The police told us to move
and we refused. So they arrested us."  "They have a job to do and they did
what they had to do," she said. "They handcuffed us, drove us to the
station, and charged us with failure to disperse."

  _____  

From: moscowcares at moscow.com <mailto:moscowcares at moscow.com> 
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:14:55 -0700
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm <mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> 
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

I can hardly imagine how Hedy Epstein felt, and what she was thinking, when
she was arrested.

Courtesy of the New York Daily News at:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/holocaust-survivor-90-arrested-prot
est-st-louis-article-1.1909363

--------------------------------------

Holocaust survivor, 90, is arrested for protesting in St. Louis in support
of Michael Brown

Hedy Epstein, a German Jew who fled to England as a child before World War
II started, has been protesting against injustice since she was a teen.
She's been arrested before for protesting, and was cuffed again Monday in
downtown St. Louis during a rally against Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon's decision
to send the National Guard into Ferguson, Mo. 'I didn't think I would still
be doing this when I was 90," she said. "But we have to stand up for what's
right.'

She may not be the loudest protester, but 90-year-old Hedy Epstein is likely
the oldest person demanding justice for Michael Brown.

And she has the bruises on her arm to prove it.

"The police officers weren't violent or anything like that, but they put the
handcuffs on me pretty tight," the St. Louis grandmother told The Daily News
on Tuesday - a day after she was arrested.

"I have been arrested before," she said. "The bruises will go away."

A German Jew who fled to England as a child before World War II erupted -
and whose parents and other relatives were murdered by the Nazis at the
Auschwitz death camp - Epstein is a longtime political activist.

Most recently, Epstein has taken part in numerous protests against the
Israeli bombing of Palestinians in Gaza.

On Monday, Epstein said she was in downtown St. Louis to protest Missouri
Gov. Jay Nixon's decision to send the National Guard into Ferguson, Mo.

"We were hoping to get him to de-escalate the violence," said Epstein. "We
believe they are inciting the peaceful demonstrators to become violent."

Epstein said she "hadn't given a thought to being arrested."

But just before the protest march kicked off, Epstein said "somebody
announced there would be arrests and they asked me if I was willing to take
that risk."

"I said yes," she said. "It was very spontaneous."

Epstein said they marched over to a government building and began demanding
to speak with Nixon. She said the cops said no and threatened to arrest them
if they didn't scram.

"In the past my heart would pound a mile a minute," she said. "This time I
was very calm. The police told us to move and we refused. So they arrested
us."

Epstein said the officers treated them professionally.

"They have a job to do and they did what they had to do," she said. "They
handcuffed us, drove us to the station, and charged us with failure to
disperse."

Epstein, who lived in New York when she first emigrated to the U.S. in 1948,
said she has protested against what she sees as injustice "since I was a
teenager."

"I didn't think I would still be doing this when I was 90," she said. "But
we have to stand up for what's right."

--------------------

Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein, 90, is arrested on Monday during unrest
outisde the office of Missouri Gov Jay Nixon in St. Louis.

<hedy-epstein.jpg>

-------------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 25, 2014, at 12:40 PM, "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> > wrote:

Paul wrote:

"While I'm in a condemning mood, I would also like to condemn the people
involved in the looting that has occurred."

Me as well.  Two (or more) wrongs don't make a right, but again, I think
there's a world of difference between a handful of thugs acting badly and
State agents acting really, really badly.

And, I'll just add a bit.  I realize that I'm just as privileged as everyone
else who was fortunate enough to be born white in this country with the
protection of the US Constitution.  That said, there is something
soul-changing -- at least there was for my daughter and me and many, many
others on our train -- that happens when encountering a militarized police
presence on domestic soil.  There is something terrifyingly soul-changing
when one - even in a crowd -- is surrounded and held captive by a
militarized police presence with assault rifles trained on the crowd,
bellowed threats for doing nothing wrong, surrounded by big military
vehicles, and helicopters swirling overhead.

While watching live coverage of the protests, I was reminded - again - that
our Constitutional rights don't matter one bit in the face of militarized
police forces (and other instances of LE abuse of power).

And, I was incredibly sad that many of those hundreds and hundreds of
protestors who did absolutely nothing wrong have now had that soul-changing
experience.

Finally, as the survivor of a violent crime, I can tell you that my
first-person experience that really terrible things do, indeed, happen to
good people at the hands of criminals pales in comparison to the
soul-changing experience of being surrounded and held captive by a
militarized police force.

Saundra

Moscow, ID

The worst sin towards our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be
indifferent to them.   That's the essence of inhumanity.

~  George Bernard Shaw

From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:paul.rumelhart at gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 10:48 AM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

I did not realize that this event was to protest the way the police had
handled the protests in Ferguson.  I had assumed that the event was to
protest the killing of Michael Brown, which is what I was talking about when
I said I didn't have enough information to know whether or not to be enraged
over this.  That was my mistake.  My apologies for not reading the entire
message.

I wholeheartedly think the cops in Ferguson went overboard in how they
handled this entire event, from the first press conferences to the curfews
to the way they have handled the crowds and journalists.  The way they have
handled journalists is exceptionally bad and at complete odds with the First
Amendment.  Even third-world countries are smart enough not to do that.

While I'm in a condemning mood, I would also like to condemn the people
involved in the looting that has occurred.  

Paul

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> > wrote:

Are you saying, then, that the domestic militarization of police in this
country is OK in some places/situations but not in others?  Did I completely
misunderstand your previous posts about police militarization?  "I really
think the militarization of the police is a bad idea."

You do understand, don't you, that with respect to Ferguson, the topic of
police militarization refers to the LE response to unarmed non-violent
protestors exercising their Constitutional rights & journalists covering the
police response and not to Darren Wilson's shooting of unarmed Mike Brown,
Jr., right?

What facts are you waiting for before you decide whether those actions are
OK with you?  Did not scene after scene after scene of LE pointing assault
rifles at unarmed and non-violent citizens reinforce the position you've
taken about the militarization of police being a bad idea?  Did it not
concern you that journalists and civilians were ordered to stop filming LE
response over and over and over again?  Did not the targeted deployment of
tear gas canisters and concussion grenades at a news crew with no protestors
nearby concern you?  There's the now infamous incident of that unhinged St.
Ann cop who pointed a loaded semi-automatic assault weapon at unarmed
protestors, some of whom had their hands up, and journalists and announced,
"I'll f*cking kill you," but that's certainly not the only unhinged cop I
saw or heard during the protests.

Just Curious,

Saundra

Moscow, ID

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From: Paul Rumelhart [mailto:paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
<mailto:paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> ] 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 7:51 AM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Solidarity with Ferguson

Paul's waiting for  more actual facts before he gets enraged over this.

Paul

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> > wrote:

Glad to see you're sticking to type, Scott, with your predictable denial
that race has anything to do with anything.  I put that in the same category
as the idiotic comment you made that felons don't have problems finding jobs
& housing.  Just plain ignorant and living in some imaginary World According
to Scott that has no connection to reality.

For me, there are lots of things that concern me about Ferguson, and yes,
race is one of the things, although not necessarily with respect to the
actual killing of Mike Brown Jr.  That's a question I don't think will ever
be answered.

But, the fact of the matter -- for me -- is I think anyone who isn't
concerned when police shoot & kill unarmed people is an idiot.  That concern
doesn't necessarily mean that the killing was dirty, but to not concerned?
Idiotic.  I actually think gun-wielding agents of the State have a higher
duty to preserve life than do thugs.  Go figure.

I also think Ferguson gave the whole country -- at least those not living
under rocks --  a good picture of the real life consequences of the
militarization of the police.  Paul, I think, has posted on that topic a few
times, so it's . . . curious to me he didn't bring up the topic with such a
great real world example.

There are several other significant concerns, but I really don't see much
reason to engage in discussion with you since you predictably want to boil
everything down to "race baiting."

Saundra

On Sun, Aug 24, 2014, at 01:50 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

I'd guess they will show up in droves. Race baiting and anti-establishment
sentiment are effective in mobilizing young people who are more driven by
peer pressure and emotion in jumping to conclusions rather than rationally
waiting for all for the facts surrounding this tragic event to emerge and
coming to an informed opinion.

As for me, I'll keep an open mind that this could be 'racist cop shoots and
kills black kid minding his own business', but until I'm convinced beyond a
reasonable doubt I won't be rendering a verdict.

-Scott

On Aug 24, 2014, at 3:12 PM, "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> > wrote:

Here's hoping our local college students make me proud  :)  I've given my
hubby a head's up to be aware & hopeful that some of his students walk out
tomorrow morning and to not take it personally  :)

I'm curious:  is anyone here planning on going to Spokane Tuesday to
participate in the rally?

Saundra

From: Amnesty International USA [mailto:alerts at takeaction.amnestyusa.org] 
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:59 AM
To: 
Subject: Solidarity with Ferguson

<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27318
6&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0> 

Solidarity with Ferguson, Missouri

<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27318
7&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0> 

Photo by Scott Olson/Getty Images

A police officer in Ferguson, Missouri fatally shot unarmed teenager Michael
Brown on August 9.

This week, the Ferguson community is asking us to take to the streets.

Dear Saundra & Bill,

On August 9, Mike Brown, an unarmed 18-year old, was shot by a police
officer in Ferguson, Missouri. It's moments like this that draw us in, and
that demand solidarity, because all lives matter and human rights are at
stake. 

You have taken action online. Now, the Ferguson community is asking for us
to take to the streets: 

*	On Monday, August 25, Mike Brown's family is laying him to rest.
Ferguson community members are asking college students to walk out of their
classes at 1pm EST/10am PST
<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27318
8&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0>  and assemble in solidarity with victims and survivors of
police brutality. Will you join them?
<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27318
9&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0> 
*	For the rest of the week, people around the world are rallying at
U.S. federal buildings and U.S. embassies to call on the Department of
Justice to create policies that respect human rights. We'll be joining, and
we want you to stand with us and with the people of Ferguson in your own
communities. Find a rally here!
<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27319
0&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0> 

Since arriving in Ferguson, we have witnessed hundreds of people take to the
streets daily to demand human rights. We have also seen law enforcement use
tear gas in the crowd, and arrest protestors. There have been blockades on
West Florissant Street for days; journalists have been cleared from the
area, and we've been kept from full access to protestors at times.
Throughout all of this, we've been in awe of the power and resilience of
community organizers on the ground who have refused to have their
fundamental human rights restricted, and have dedicated themselves to
sharing Mike Brown's story and to demanding change. 

Now is the time for us to join in raising concerns about race and policing,
and the impact of militarization on the fundamental right to peacefully
assemble. Now is the time to bring together your community to participate in
the movement to bring human rights home. 

In Solidarity,

Kalaya'an Mendoza, Senior Organizer
Noor Mir, Associate Field Organizer
Amnesty International USA Delegates in Ferguson, MO 

<http://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/broadcast.response.do?ea.url.id=27319
1&ea.campaigner.email=BAD5ZdktWlKbKzOfDY5p9fmkGi65H1302t8RM2eLScw=&ea_broadc
ast_target_id=0> 

C 2014 Amnesty International USA | 5 Penn Plaza, New York, NY 10001 |
212.807.8400 

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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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