[Vision2020] A reassuring voice . . .

Thu Aug 21 12:31:09 PDT 2014

Ever hear the adage “We’re both speaking English, but it’s not the same language”?  That’s what I feel like right now.

We’re barking up the same tree here.  Yes, it works for the first four hours (all the legal mumbo jumbo), and yes, it can get you a concealed firearm permit from a couple other states allowing you to concealed carry in 35 or so other states.  But, it doesn’t get you the enhanced Idaho permit, at least not by itself.

Forgive my lack of clarity

Your pal

DC

From: Tom Hansen [mailto:thansen at moscow.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 12:23 PM
To: Dan Carscallen
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A reassuring voice . . .

Dan Carscalken stated:

"The class put on by the NFTA is 'not' for the enhanced Idaho permit"

Then, Mr. Carscallen, why does the NFTA website specifically state " . . . fills the qualifications for the first 4 hours of the Idaho Enhanced Permit.

*More information will be given on the second part (live fire)  of the Idaho Enhanced Permit during the class."

Huh?

And the on-site advertisement, at Tri-State, specifically relates the training to "Concealed Firearm Permit"

image.jpeg

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 21, 2014, at 12:10 PM, "Dan Carscallen" <areaman at moscow.com> wrote:

The class put on by the NFTA is *not* for the enhanced Idaho permit (which is required to be able to carry on the UI campus), but it does help you to apply for a concealed carry permit in those other states, allowing you to concealed carry in some of the states that don’t recognize the regular Idaho concealed carry permit.

>From what I know of the enhanced permit class, there is actual hands-on training where you have to shoot an oddball number of rounds downrange along with the classroom lessons explaining the laws.  I look forward to taking it here in the near future.

Your pal

DC

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 11:16 AM
To: lfalen
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A reassuring voice . . .

And judgin' by this course description any idiot can git one of them enhanced carry permits.

Here is a four-hour course . . . an' ya git a ten-dollar gift certificate from Tri-State . . . all before lunch.

Courtesy of the National Firearms Training Academy at:

http://nftacademy.com/classes/idaho/aug-2-815-am-moscow-id-tri-state-outfitters/

-------------------------------------------------------

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION

This class qualifies Idaho residents for the Idaho, Utah, Arizona, Oregon permits and fills the qualifications for the first 4 hours of the Idaho Enhanced Permit*.   Come learn how to carry in 40 states in a safe, fun, and entertaining course.  Receive a $10 gift certificate to Tri-State Outfitters upon completion of the course.The class is approximately 4 hours long.  All instructors are NRA certified, UBCI certified, and either have a law degree or are currently pursuing one. Bring a valid state issued I.D. and something to take notes on. Other needed class materials are provided. You are welcome to bring food or drinks.

-------------------------------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, 'cuz . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Aug 21, 2014, at 11:00 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

Paul is right, which is why I like concealed carry. You need a permit and some training. Any idiot can open carry.

Roger

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A reassuring voice . . .
From: "Paul Rumelhart" <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
To: "Gier, Nicholas (ngier at uidaho.edu)" <ngier at uidaho.edu>
Date: 08/21/14 19:56:46

Gun safety is a major concern, as is training. I think we need a lot more of both. I would love to take a class, if someone offered one, that explains the law with regards to home defense and best practices in using, cleaning, and storing firearms.

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Gier, Nicholas (ngier at uidaho.edu) <ngier at uidaho.edu> wrote:

Hi Paul,

You are absolutely right. That's why I joined the Martin Institute for Peace Studies and Conflict Resolution (now just the Martin Institute), and for 24 years I've devoted all my research to the origins of violence, with an emphasis on religious violence.

But what about nonviolent children picking up guns and shooting themselves and other kids? Or the man in Montana, presumably an upstanding citizen, who shot to death a German exchange student in his garage? Or the presumably upstanding citizen who shot to death a black woman who came to his door early in the morning because her car had broken down. The very presence of excessive firearms, even in a nonviolent society, and even with well intentioned police, will inevitably lead to gun deaths.

Nick

  _____  

 From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> on behalf of Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 8:51 AM
To: Tom Hansen
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A reassuring voice . . .

Well, I'm glad Nick resisted the urge to grab his .30-06 out of storage and go on a shooting spree. I'm sure the constant psychic pull of the weapon was hard to fight when he was tired or distracted. The whispers, just on the edge of hearing, of "Kill! Kill them all!" were no doubt damn near irresistible in those last few moments before drifting off to sleep.

I'm joking, of course, but this is the crux of it to me: do we really have a gun problem? Or do we have a violence problem? 

For example, is the problem that abusive husbands are armed and kill their wives, or is the problem that too many husbands are abusive to the point that they will attempt to kill their wives? Shouldn't we work on solving the second problem first?

Paul

On Thu, Aug 21, 2014 at 4:50 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

On carrying guns . . .

http://www.tomandrodna.com/Soundbites/On_Carrying_Guns.mp3

Courtesy of the Letters section of today's (August 21, 2014) Moscow-Pullman Daily News with thanks to Nick Gier.

-------------------------------------

His View: The gun-crazed hermit of the Applegate

Nick Gier

It was the summer of 1960, and I was smitten. Even though a family friend's daughter had a mad crush on me, I had been seduced by something even more alluring and far less complicated than teenage romance.

I had bought an Army surplus .30-06 Springfield rifle, and I was in love. I spent hard-earned dollars on a new stock and a 3-7x Bausch & Lomb scope. A gunsmith had completely refurbished the bolt action and barrel. This rifle made me feel like a real man for the first time.

In 1962 I graduated fourth in my high school class of 442, and I had earned two scholarships to attend Oregon State University. But I was a loner, had few friends and showed my disgust with modern society at every turn.

At the end of the summer, I told my dad that I was going to take my guns and build a hermit's cabin on the Applegate River. When my dad asked me how I was going to make a living, I said I was going to pan for gold. My father, brother and I once had a very good day on the Applegate with our home-made sluice boxes.

My dad was never forceful or authoritarian (quite the opposite), but he was still able to persuade me that this was a crazy idea. Was this smart kid just several steps away from becoming a Ted Kaczynski?

It was eventually a good woman who made me give up my beloved firearms. When my former Danish wife and I moved to Moscow in 1972, I brought my rifle out from storage to show her. She was not impressed. She told me it was either her or the gun. For 16 years I chose her and a safe home for our wonderful daughter. Homes with guns have far more child deaths.

Armed homes are not safe for women, either. A recent study concluded women were eight times more likely to be killed in the home by abusive armed men.

A fully armed citizenry, as well as militarized police and criminal gangs, have made parts of our cities into war zones.

Denmark's gun death rate of 1.45 per 100,000 stands in stark contrast to the U.S. at 10.2, but some say it is a small price to pay for the freedom to pack heat. For every Dane who kills himself with a gun, there are six Americans who go out in glory with their handy firearms.

Why is the gun death rate so low for the heavily armed Swiss (3.84) and Finns (3.64), but so high for Americans (10.2)? Maybe it is the effeminate lederhosen and the family saunas that allow the Swiss and the Finns to kill each other less frequently.

The Aussies' low gun death rate (1.25) is no doubt due to feminizing everything from "waste tidies" to my "barbie." A real man would bellow "garbage can" and my "grill." There have been no mass killings in Australia since strict gun laws were passed by a conservative government in 1996.

Does having Mounties enforce the law (from horses rather than armored personnel carriers) lead to lower gun death rates in Canada (1.25)? Unarmed English Bobbies (there's that diminutive again) have swat team back-up, but you rarely ever see them.

Along with the English, the police in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Switzerland and Norway do not carry weapons. Fewer guns evidently leads to more trust and, ironically, better security.

Scotland has an amazingly low 0.25 gun deaths per 100,000, so it must be those kilts with no underpants. Is a William Wallace mooning more intimidating than brandishing an AR-15?

-------------------------------------

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares"

 <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
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  _____  

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

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