[Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Scott Dredge
scooterd408 at hotmail.com
Tue Aug 5 11:12:04 PDT 2014
Roger writes:
<I think people are too quick to yell racism when there is none.>
Roger - A lot of people are routinely quick to jump to conclusions with less than full information. I'm guilty of this myself. However, I reserve the right to change my mind when more information becomes available which the vast majority of people consider a weakness. This is why politicians are tagged with labels of 'waffling' and 'flip flopping' when they reverse their positions and thus instead oft times they just stick to their guns to the point of ridiculousness.
I was outraged as most others when the 'not guilty' verdict on George Zimmerman came down because I hadn't been following the case closely. Paul Rumelhart was the just about the only one on this list who was providing more details (instead of comments of moral outrage) and when I actually got motivated enough to chase more information down myself through a wide variety of sources, my opinion was that there was nearly zero chance of getting a conviction with nearly any jury. I'd say that the case should have never been brought to trial, but considering that there was a huge public outrage (largely based on yells of 'racism'), it was brought to trial by hand-picked prosecutor who wasn't even capable of getting a grand jury indictment (and how hard is that?).
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 19:16:27 -0700
To: vision2020 at moscow.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; scooterd408 at hotmail.com; suehovey at moscow.com; debismith at moscow.com
From: lfalen at turbonet.com
Subject: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
I think people are too quick to yell racism when there is none. I will agree there is some latent racism. I grow up in all white Sothern Idaho also. I had no contact with any colored folks. I thought then and still do that all races are basically the same. Take every on an individual basis.
Some said just wait until you get in the service, then you will change your mind. When I was in the service I knew some colored people id din not like, bust also some I did. The same goes for white people. I still base my opinions on the individual. As for Mohamed Ali, he amused me. His bombast was showmanship. He drew crowds, people wanted to see him annihilated, and he raked in the money. My favorite boxer though is George Foreman.
People rail against the Tea Party donors such as The Koch Brother. Don't forget about the big bucks behind some left wing causes ( George Soros, Michael Bloomberg, to name just two)
-----Original Message-----
From: deb <debismith at moscow.com>
To: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>, "Scott Dredge" <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 08/03/14 21:08
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Thanks, Sue, for the perspective. I grew up in a family that "wasn't racist" because they "knew" or had interacted with a person of color at some point and didn't treat that person like dirt. I am well aware that I have some internal biases of which I am not aware, as I was indoctrinated at an ealy age...I work really hard to make sure I'm not using those biases to make judgements, evaluations, or decisions. I know I still screw up.
I'm an old white woman who grew up in a very white Idaho and Utah, with all the benefits ( and drawbacks) that designation entails. I know this makes me "entitled" and more than a little stupid about race (and a whole raft of other issues---gender, religion, poverty, etc).
My first memories of familial racism are related to Cassius Clay/Muhamed Ali---my dad was a boxing fan, a war monger, and a religious bigot. One can imagine how that worked for an anti-racist, anti-war, anti-religion child of the '60s.....It took us 30 years to even confront the issues, let alone reconcile...I still love boxing, however.....
And nothing changes until everyone who was a racist product of the 1930s to the 1960s is dead and gone, and those they influenced are outed as the assinine idiots they are, including me I think....
Meantime, we allow all the underlying racism of the legal system, city planning, the schools, the voting districts, etc ad naseum to continue ubnremarked as we focus on a few old nasty racist rich guys....I want to see those like us, aware of the situation and wanting to take responsibility, stand up and shout out...Sterling and Bundy are out in the open dinosaurs, but we have an enormous undercurrent of their ilk who have more tact and influence managing right-wing politics in the US. Just because "they" didn't say it doesn't mean "they" don't support it---Who is financing the Tea Party/Hard Right Republicans?
Debi R-S
Debi R-S
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue Hovey
To: Scott Dredge ; Sunil ; viz
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2014 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Scott,
The whole issue of racism for me is that so very often I need to examine my own responses. I could take some comfort in the fact that most of my generation is racist whether we acknowledge it or not. But I try not to do that. And when I hear someone my age begin a statement with the assertion, "I'm not racist, but..." I generally conclude they are and are in a self delusional mode. But as you say, we cannot unring that bell, so what comes next is a result of what has gone before and there seems not to be a productive reason to look for a way to rationalize, excuse, or spring to Sterling's defense. And certainly I have no desire to do that. I appreciated Leonard Pitts' article in today's Tribune, in which he discusses the racist comments of Sterling and Bundy. He concludes with the words, "But many of us don't really understand what they purport to condemn. Otherwise how could there be all this noise about that which doesn't matter and silence about that which does. Examples to which he pointed: black vs. white prison sentences for similar crimes, the execution rates of minority males, arrests based on skin color, the list goes on.....
And thanks for the kudos, deserved or not.
Sue
From: Scott Dredge
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2014 12:31 AM
To: Sue Hovey ; Sunil ; viz
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Sue,
Kudos to you for not knee jerking like so many others when anyone cries 'racism' on a list server. I'm not all that thrilled either about a private conversation being turned into a viral sensation and a public relations nightmare. But there is no way to unring this bell and the NBA needs to protect their billion dollar empire so things just move on to the next phase of issuing the max penalty levied by the NBA (no brainer as Donovan pointed out) and ultimately forcing Sterling to sell the team. I'm guessing that V. Stiviano won't be able to find another billionaire sugar daddy but might be able to land a good size payday for a tell all book. She might also get a pretty penny for posing in a nudie magazine or two.
-Scott
From: suehovey at moscow.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 17:56:51 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Sure, I know that. And Tinker wasn't a good example for me to use for that reason. But, I still think the application of the principal is the same. Now folks are calling it a privacy issue. That's interesting. A goodly number are really selective about what constitutes a right to privacy. If it's a woman's right to choose (for example) there is no right to privacy, they say.
Sue
From: Sunil
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 9:22 AM
To: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Sue,
The First Amendment was implicated in Tinker because the school board is a state actor. It's not implicated here because the NBA is not a state actor.
Sunil
From: suehovey at moscow.com
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
But in Tinker v. Des Moines SD the issue was all about 1st Amendment Rights and did not involve government censorship or prosecution...made clear in the case...nevertheless the ruling was her first amendment rights "did not stop at the school house door."
sue h
From: Scott Dredge
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 3:50 PM
To: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
Donald Sterling's First Amendment rights are fully intact as he's not facing censorship from the government and he's also not facing prosecution for what he said in private. Apparently on the same tape, Sterling said 'I love black people', but the conversation needs to be taking in totality and full context and not reduced, as usual, to only a few sound bytes that resonate with Tom Hansen rendering a verdict & decree.
Also interesting to note is that the NAACP was planning to give Sterling a 2nd lifetime achievement award on May 15th. Sterling received his first NAACP award 5 years ago.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/04/donald-sterling-naacp-award
All of this is so...what's the right phrase...black and white?
-Scott
On Apr 29, 2014, at 3:19 PM, "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
Frankly, I think he's a "dirty old man" with a great looking young woman friend, and his prejudices and bigotry extend far beyond what he has just said. Even so, it would seem to me he has a First Amendment right to say what he thinks. Not knowing what the bylaws of the NBA say to this issue, I do wonder how they can ban him from games when he owns the team, and I imagine the courts will be asked to resolve that issue. If the KKK has a First Amendment right to march down the streets of American cities (and I don't argue they do) then maybe Magic Johnson should just have to "suck it up." I believe the First Amendment is precious...and yes, there are consequences for speech that harms, but we have to be very wary of consequences for something that is purely speech and not overt behavior, which is discrimination and often illegal.
Perhaps the NBA could look into the Cliven Bundy case and remove him from his ranch just as Sterling has been removed from the Arena. Well maybe their bylaws don't extend that far. Damn.
Sue H.
From: Ron Force
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 2:14 PM
To: Gary Crabtree ; Paul Rumelhart
Cc: Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Political correctness run amok
It wasn't just "black people" dude, it was Magic Johnson!
Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA
On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:59 PM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:
The guy should be thanking his lucky stars that he wasn't illegally taped stating that he believed that marriage should be between a man and a women exclusively. They would be calling for a total confiscation of all his worldly goods and a summary execution.
g
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 12:48 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
Donald Sterling has now been banned for life from games and practices by the NBA and fined $2.5 million dollars. Why? Because he was recorded saying bad things about black people in a PRIVATE conversation he was having with his girlfriend. One that was very likely recorded illegally. Does this strike anyone here as being over-the-top? Or am I the only one not on the "OMG! He said bad things about black people!" bandwagon?
I hate that we have become a nation of nattering ninnies.
Paul
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