[Vision2020] Yes, I'm proud to be a liberal

Fri Aug 1 18:14:14 PDT 2014

I'm sure our government has been serving the needs of those in power since
it started, the Founding Fathers notwithstanding.  The trouble now, as I
see it, is that we have reached the redonkulous stage of growth, which
allows for our government to have the resources to record everything they
can of our communications, to build up a drone program, to fight wars on
multiple fronts, and so forth.  Not to mention the trillions in debt we've
accumulated.  I'm merely suggesting that we think about reigning in the
beast while we're arguing about who should control it for this 4-year
period.

You're right that we don't all agree on what needs to get done.  Perhaps we
should be discussing what would make a good minimum, while at the same time
discussing how we can trim the fat.

Paul

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Paul,
>
> Even when our government was small, it was serving those same interests.
> It's not a function of size.
>
> The problem with your last sentence is that as a society we don't agree on
> what needs to get done, do we?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 18:01:16 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Yes, I'm proud to be a liberal
> From: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> Not in recent memory, no.  I'm not a history buff, so I couldn't tell you
> much about how things looked before, say, WWII.  That doesn't mean that I
> don't think it's something we should strive for.  We should have just
> enough government to get done what needs to get done and no more.  In my
> opinion.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 5:56 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Paul,
>
> Is there a time you think our government was small?
>
> sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 17:53:42 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Yes, I'm proud to be a liberal
> From: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
>
> I never meant to imply that a large government has the *right* to spy on
> it's citizens.  It just has the resources to do so.
>
> Basically, if you want the nice shiny things, you need a government big
> enough to cause us all trouble, as well as the rest of the world.
>
> I agree that the "policing" I was talking about serves the interest of
> those in power for reasons other than doing what they think is right.  They
> can't do it (at least as well) with a small government, though, which was
> my point.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 5:14 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> You're creating a false equivalence. Just because a state is large doesn't
> mean it thinks it has the right to spy on it's citizens.
>
> As for policing the world, if we are doing any 'policing,' it's to impose
> our will and serve the interests of those who benefit from our foreign
> policy.
>
> Sunil
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 07:57:00 -0700
> From: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
> To: thansen at moscow.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Yes, I'm proud to be a liberal
>
>
> I was thinking more generally of welfare (medicaid, medicare, social
> security, unemployment, etc).  They are extremely useful programs when
> needed, they are often abused, and they require a large federal government
> to sustain.  I wouldn't be so down on the idea of a large state if it
> didn't think that it had the right to spy on it's citizens and assassinate
> people without due process and if it didn't think it had to police the
> world.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Paul Rumelhart argues:
>
> "Being a statist is what I have a problem with.  Basically making the
> state too powerful and people too dependent upon it."
>
> Do you mean state-expanded Medicaid?   Public schools?  Increased minimum
> wage?
>
> Details please.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> On Jul 31, 2014, at 10:58 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Being a statist is what I have a problem with.  Basically making the state
> too powerful and people too dependent upon it.
>
>
>
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