[Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

Sun Sep 8 22:56:20 PDT 2013

Scott,

I'm not expecting a utopian society, or even a near perfect legal system. However, the USA is the leading jailer in the WORLD. We have the highest percentage of people in prison then any other nation. That doesn't sound like a free nation or a good legal system. One out of 18 men in this country is either in prison, jail, house arrest, or on probation. This is NOT a disaster? I think it is s monumental disaster. Not anything close to success.

What nation's numbers do I think are better? Every other nation's number are lower. So, I guess that it would be any nation you can name, I would prefer. 

What protections do you think we still have in this nation that have not been compromised, altered, ignored or eliminated? 

Donovan J. Arnold 

________________________________
 From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; Rosemary Huskey <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>; Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

It's not a 'total disaster'.  And you'd be hard pressed to find a better system of making and enforcing the rule of law combined with individual protections, but it depends on what defines your criteria of 'success'.  What country (past or present) outside of the Unites States comes close to achieving your idea of utopia?

________________________________
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2013 19:04:16 -0700From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.comTo: donaldrose at cpcinternet.com; sunilramalingam at hotmail.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption
 Rose,

I think that it is endearing
there are many people with law degrees that are trying to correct injustices in
the world. However, it is lawyers, collectively, that are blocking many people
from getting legal help by restricting access to legal advice to only lawyers,
and expanding the definition of legal advice, and then limiting the ability
of lawyers financially being able to do pro bono and free work.

Further, many lawyers will litigate anything just for the
money, not a real injustice, and they make everything monumentally expensive.
The worst is medical collections. Lawyers go after people if a medical
bill is late one day, they already got it in court. They could not destroy
people and their lives more thoroughly if they tried.

I'm willing
to bet, that if the Federal Government investigated convictions of people in prison, at random, they would find serious flaws and
injustices in how people are treated, sentenced, and imprisoned
in a surprisingly high percentage of the cases. It isn't just a flawed
system, is a seriously backwards system that is geared toward helping
nobody but lawyers. In any outcome, good or bad for the accused, or
victim, society or businesses, the lawyers always win, and always get their
money, always. Lawyers make the laws, and they not surprisingly make them to
favor themselves over anyone else. That is why people collectively don't like
lawyers, collectively. If taken individually, there are some wonderful people
that are lawyers, but that doesn't change what they have done collectively to
our legal system, making it a total disaster. 

Donovan J.
Arnold   

________________________________
 From: Rosemary Huskey <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
To: 'Donovan Arnold' <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:01 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

Donovan, I don’t disagree with you that access to attorney should be a right and not a privilege – I am a aware that many attorneys provide pro bono help to clients – and that generosity is distinctly different behavior than most other professions.  I guess the ideal solution would be legal aid clinics – publicly funded for civil cases at a minimal cost to the client (or free ).  In particular, the underserved groups that you described are often vulnerable and without easy access to legal counsel.  I don’t blame attorney for this I blame a system that has always favored (or feared) the wealthy (preferably white) men.   I don’t have to remind you that money = power = control.
Rose

From:Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 5:02 PM
To: Rosemary Huskey; 'Sunil Ramalingam'
Cc: 'vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

Rose,
I cannot judge individuals. I do know that lawyers prevent anyone else from advising anyone about the law even for small cases, like a paralegal cannot even give you basics of a how a court hearing transpires, or where to look up your rights. I know that lawyers work for hundreds of dollars an hour, blocking most people from seeking a lawyer. I know that the costs of creating lawyers is intentionally made expensive, as well as  limiting their numbers to reduce competition. 
 Firms do this to keep their numbers low, so that they can keep their profits high. So there are not enough lawyers at an affordable rate because of lawyers collective actions. They have their excuses, like not wanting unqualified people to be lawyers or giving bad advice. However, increasing the number of lawyers would reduce the number of people in prison, and prevent people from being unjustly treated in our society because they cannot afford an attorney to defend or represent them in life, particularly those with disabilities, the elderly, the undereducated, and poor.  The rich can and do trounce on people because a lawyer is too expensive for them. This is grave injustice, and only exists because of the collective actions of lawyers wanting to charge a great deal of profit. It is better to be a salmon swimming upstream and through a dam then to be a lawyer and afford to defend the poor. 

My only major problem with police is speed traps. This is dishonest. I don't trust police that set up speed traps. It is designed to make money for the town or city. This is unethical. Speed limits should ONLY be used for the safety of the community and people on the roads. Not a cash cow. It is abuse of the people, and the office. 
Donovan J. Arnold

From:Rosemary Huskey <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
To: 'Donovan Arnold' <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> 
Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 4:39 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption
Hi Donovan,

We mostly agree about things but I have to ask if you really intended to be so globally critical of lawyers?  Every profession/occupation has jackasses – but that is not the whole picture.  There are many heroes and heroines who show up every day (for crappy pay) to defend challenging clients in Idaho.  They do it because they believe in justice not because they are corrupt.  The odds are stacked against them in many places in Idaho – the state funds all the prosecutor offices and pays staff salaries, provides law libraries etc.  Few counties in Idaho fund an office and staff for the P.D.’s .  Latah does not.  I don’t know if it is still the case locally but it used to be a low bid contract – and the P.D.s made incredible personal sacrifices and carried huge case loads to provide counsel to indigent clients.  And, yes, I do have a personal connection to a former public defender.  But, the nights and weekends she worked after a ten hour
 work day give lie to the words that lawyers don’t care about justice.      Some may not, but we have many honorable local attorneys, some of whom appear regularly on this chat group.  They are a credit to their profession and a blessing to their clients.

Best,
Rose

From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 1:14 PM
To: Sunil Ramalingam
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption

Sunil,
 The best defense against a lie is to always tell the truth. Anything you say or do online or over a cell phone may be used against you in a court of law. There is a reason the United States has the most people in prison, it doesn't care about protections of the people. Everything is 100% about profit for a corporation. Our politicians and legal system is just as corrupted and crooked as it has ever been. Lawyers don't care about justice, and politicians don't care about the people they were elected to protect and act in their trust. So, really, it doesn't matter if evidence is obtained illegally or legally if the rest of the legal and political system is also contaminated. 

Lawyers need to work for Justice, not a profit. Politicians need to work for the People, not the Corporations. Because truly, without this, there will be no observance of the Constitution and the protections of individual rights. 
Donovan J. Arnold

From:Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: 
Cc: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, September 6, 2013 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption
Scott,You've suggested before that you weren't very concerned about the NSA revelations because we have constitutional protections that would prevent illegally obtained evidence from being used against us. (Yes, I'm paraphrasing, but I believe that was the gist of your position. Please correct as necessary.) Anyway, I'm wondering if you saw this story when it came out last month:http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/08/us-dea-irs-idUSBRE9761AZ20130808The DEA has lied in cases and created a false story about how it obtained evidence, hiding how they actually, illegally obtained information.How are we to depend on our constitutional protections if the government does this?Sunil
From: scooterd408 at hotmail.comTo: godshatter at yahoo.com; rforce2003 at yahoo.comDate: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 22:17:59 -0600CC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption 
I recall several years ago Paul Harvey had a story about a free ware program called PGP which stood for Pretty Good Protection that government didn't like because they couldn't easily crack it and it violated some national security law (ironic isn't it?).  I think it would be difficult for anyone or any group to stymie the NSA on this front.  They just have too many resources and employ too many sharp cookies that thrive on decrypting the most difficult and world class encryption schemes.  The best bet might be to just try and fall back on whatever Constitutional protections are available such as the 4th Amendment.  That might help from being criminally convicted of wrong doing, but wouldn't necessarily protect against private information becoming public.
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 18:58:52 -0700From: godshatter at yahoo.comTo: rforce2003 at yahoo.comCC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption 
You've hit the nail on the head.  Nobody cares.  That's exactly the problem.  Well done, sir. Paul On 09/05/2013 05:08 PM, Ron Force wrote: 
This one?
> 
> 
> Error! Filename not specified.
>Ron Force
>Moscow Idaho USA
> 
>>From:Scott Dredge mailto:scooterd408 at hotmail.com
>>To: Paul Rumelhart mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com; Art Deco mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com; viz mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 4:01 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption
>>It'll be obvious by whatever cartoon is posted.  
>>Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 14:53:33 -0700 From: godshatter at yahoo.com To: art.deco.studios at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com Subject: Re: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption 
>>I wonder if Mr. Hansen still thinks I'm being paranoid about my online privacy. Paul 
>> 
>> 
>>From:Art Deco mailto:art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
>>Sent: Thursday, September 5, 2013 12:54 PM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption
>>Error! Filename not specified. | BREAKING NEWS ALERT  NYTimes.com  | Unsubscribe  
>> 
>>BREAKING NEWS Thursday, September 5, 2013 3:05 PM EDT  
>>N.S.A. Foils Much Internet Encryption 
>>The National Security Agency is winning its long-running secret war on encryption, using supercomputers, technical trickery, court orders and behind-the-scenes persuasion to undermine the major tools protecting the privacy of everyday communications in the Internet age, according to newly disclosed documents. 
>>The agency has circumvented or cracked much of the encryption, or digital scrambling, that guards global commerce and banking systems, protects sensitive data like trade secrets and medical records, and automatically secures the e-mails, Web searches, Internet chats and phone calls of Americans and others around the world, the documents show. 
>>Many users assume — or have been assured by Internet companies — that their data is safe from prying eyes, including those of the government, and the N.S.A. wants to keep it that way. The agency treats its recent successes in deciphering protected information as among its most closely guarded secrets, restricted to those cleared for a highly classified program code-named Bullrun, according to the documents, provided by Edward J. Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor. 
>>READ MORE »
>>http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=4z5Q7LhI+KVBjmEgFdYACPLKh239P3pgcVRfbCz8BBZgQd4yzpEosN3MMbDsvZ+HfjrssVPdfVp5ezTj8xcY5dgGQfQYPhDAsj++infYz7aZe2s4ET/OyPpX/+8IElLzDcYCsw3LL/M=&campaign_id=132&instance_id=32000&segment_id=50109&user_id=2e59035bcefb20333e3669e05e7eef38&regi_id=31802042 
>>-- Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox) art.deco.studios at gmail.com Error! Filename not specified.
>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.               http://www.fsr.net/           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ======================================================= 
>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
>>======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.               http://www.fsr.net/           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ======================================================= 
> 
>=======================================================
>List services made available by First Step Internet,
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net/
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>=======================================================
======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net/ mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.              http://www.fsr.net/          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com=======================================================  
  ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================     
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130908/9c9af707/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 823 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130908/9c9af707/attachment-0001.jpg>