[Vision2020] Story abut Obama Care in Chicago Tribune Oct.15, 2012

Sat Oct 26 13:18:44 PDT 2013

Just one more, of many, reasons we should have single-payer (the
government) universal health care. Health care costs were be leveled out
across the nation, and no one would be penalized for living in a Western
Paradise.  Those who are against single-payer is the ones who will be hurt
the most. Talk about voting against your own self-interest!

It could have been done 50 years ago when the insurance companies weren't
well entrenched, but now it would be virtually impossible.

Nick

On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Few Drs, hospitals, insurers = no competition= higher prices. Just another
> expense for "livin' in the country".
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/24/business/health-law-fails-to-keep-prices-low-in-rural-areas.html?_r=0
>
> ...Some say the arrival of a co-op changed the landscape in Montana, where
> the insurers Blue Cross and **PacificSource** were joined by Montana
> Health CO-OP.
> In neighboring Wyoming, two insurers are offering plans under the
> exchange: Blue Cross and WINHealth, a small health maintenance
> organization, or **H.M.O.** The cheapest silver plan available to a
> 50-year-old in Wyoming cost nearly as much as the most expensive Montana
> plan.
> “Adding that third competitor really changes the landscape vastly,” said
> Jerry Dworak, chief executive of the Montana co-op. He said the other
> insurers had predicted that their rates would be 25 percent higher in the
> marketplace, but those increases did not materialize. “It was amazing how
> close the rates were,” he said...
> *...The Rural Problem*
> In rural regions, several factors combine to create a landscape that is
> inhospitable to newcomers. Developing relationships with doctors and
> hospitals can be costly where cities and towns are widely scattered and the
> pool of potential customers is small.
> “I think the problem was that the **Affordable Care Act** was designed
> for where the majority of the people live, in the big cities where there’s
> a lot of competition among health care providers,” said Tom Hirsig,
> Wyoming’s insurance commissioner.
> He said insurers simply did not find his state, with its population of
> fewer than 600,000, attractive.
> “You’ve got to have some bargaining chips and we don’t have that much,” he
> said.
> Often a single hospital dominates an area, giving insurers little leverage
> when negotiating reimbursement rates. Only one Wyoming county is served by
> more than one hospital, said Stephen K. Goldstone, the chief executive of
> WINHealth.
> “What it costs to be treated here is more expensive than other places
> because there’s no competition among providers,” Mr. Goldstone said.
> In southwest Georgia, another rural region, Blue Cross and Blue Shield of
> Georgia is the dominant carrier, and it is the only insurer operating in 54
> of the state’s 159 counties.
> “This has been what Georgia’s issues have been, that rural areas don’t
> have the best access to care,” said Amanda Ptashkin of Georgians for a
> Healthy Future, a consumer advocacy group.
> **Bert Kelly**, a spokesman for Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Georgia,
> which is owned by WellPoint, said the higher premiums reflected the area’s
> higher medical costs and not a lack of competition...
> ...It is also difficult to attract new insurers to areas where the
> population has health problems. Only one carrier, Highmark Blue Cross, is
> offering coverage in West Virginia, which has high rates of obesity and
> chronic diseases like diabetes...
>
> Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>
>
>   On Friday, October 25, 2013 1:35 PM, Scott Dredge <
> scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Obamacare fails to lower prices in rural areas.  Fortunately for Obama
> and the Dems, those are regions that vote Republican anyway, so it will
> have zero effect on future elections.
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/101140469
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 10:49:29 -0700
> To: ngier006 at gmail.com; ngier at uidaho.edu
> From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Story abut Obama Care in Chicago Tribune Oct.15,
> 2012
>
> Nick
> Again you are twisting my words. I did not say  that heath care was like a
> religion. What I said was that the beliefs about it were, in that both
> sides are going to stick to their ideology regardless of any facts. There
> are a lot of comments like yours in support of it. Likewise there is
> considerable data put out by the right that points up the deficiencies. I
> do not believe that either side is 100% percent correct. I have read a lot
> of articles that point out the deficiencies. Going back and finding those
> articles would require a lot of time. I did a search on Bing looking for
> data showing what is wrong with it. I found a long list of websites. I
> waited about 15 minuets for one to come up, which it never did. At that
> point I said "to hell with it" Some one with a better computer than mine,
> needs to take up the debate.
>
> Roger
>
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Gier, Nicholas" <ngier at uidaho.edu>
> To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>, "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>
> Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 10/24/13 11:29
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Story abut Obama Care in Chicago Tribune Oct.15,
> 2012
>
> Hi Roger,
>
> Just catching up on this thread.  I'm sorry, but health care is not like
> religion; it is not a matter of faith-except for the 46 million uninsured
> Americans, many of whom pray to God that they don't get sick.
>
> The two stories in the Chicago Tribune do not conflict. Obama has said
> that some premiums will go up, but current analysis,as the second story
> demonstrates, is that on average premiums will be lower.
>
> One does not have fall back on faith to know that single-payer universal
> systems have worked for decades, providing better health results in most
> instances and for less than half the cost in many countries.
>
> With regard to Canada, you again are mixing the anecdotal with the general
> record.  Some elective procedures are rationed in Canada, so if you don't
> want to wait, you can choose to cross the border for care.  Many Americans
> cross the border for much cheaper drugs, and many people here in Bellingham
> cross the border for good and cheaper dental care.
>
> My daughter, who lives in Edmonton, forgot to bring enough MS shots with
> her when she visited this summer.  They are listed $50 per dose in Canada,
> but she pays nothing.  When we called around in Moscow, the cost was
> $2,000!  She and her husband packed up and left for home one week earlier.
> We of course were sad to see them leave for such an outrageous reason.
>
> MS treatments are not rationed in Canada. One month after diagnosis, my
> daughter had a neurologist, an MS nurse, and an MS counselor, and access to
> the current research at a clinic at the University of Alberta.  She also
> had her drugs immediately and without cost, and she has never received a
> bill.
>
> In stark contrast is a Moscow friend of mine, who had to wait three years
> to qualify for Medicaid and to receive care and drugs.  He is now wheel
> chair bound and has 24-hour care at a cost to society much more than if he
> had been treated when he should have been.
>
> According to a Harvard study, there are 40,000 Americans who suffer
> preventable deaths each year.  We rank 19th in the world for preventable
> deaths.
>
> I'll take reason, not faith, for health care any day, and I hope you will
> change your mind on this.
>
> Nick
>
> ------------------------------
>  *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com> on
> behalf of lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 18, 2013 10:37 AM
> *To:* Nicholas Gier
> *Cc:* vision 2020
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Story in Chicago Tribune Oct.15, 2012
>
>
>  Very foggy here this morning. My wife just got back from putting on the
> State Soils Contest at Burley. She said that there was a major wreak just
> south of Genesee.
>
> On your post. These are two different stories in the same paper. Who is to
> say which is right. Maybe both to some extent. There are a lot of opposing
> arguments out there. We will have to wait and see who is right. Maybe
> neither. It is like religion. Everyone has their version of the gospel.
> Kind of like the Canadian system. Some swear by it, but a lot of those with
> money come to the states for treatment.
> Roger
> Incidentally I am mostly in agreement with Saundra's last two posts. For
> your information I also supported Otter's Heath Insurance Exchanges.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>
> To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> Cc: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, "vision 2020" <
> vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 10/17/13 10:53
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Story in Chicago Tribune Oct.15, 2012
>
>
> Hi Roger,
> *
> *
> With your example of the one nurse I believe that you have committed the
> fallacy of generalizing from a very small sample. See the story from the
> Chicago Tribune appended below. Premiums in Illinois under Obamacare will
> be lower than the national average.
>
> You speak of employers who will cut their workers hours but do not condemn
> them. There will be only one whammy, and it won't be Obamaspan>'s fault. If
> they had a union they would be protected from such arbitrary actions. And
> your second whammy would be avoided by subsidies, which could be avoided if
> employers didn't cut their hours in the first place.
>
> You forgot to mention that many poor single people will not be eligible
> for Medicaid in those states where the GOP has refused to take fed's offer
> of extended Medicaid for three years paid at 90%. The result will be that
> the Red States will fall further and further behind in general health,
> eventually to Third World levels. We are already below Cuba in infant
> mortality rates.
>
> Yours for better facts and better arguments,
>
> Nick
>
> *Illinois insurance exchange rates lower than U.S. average*
> *Plans under health care law expected to provide 'fairly competitive
> prices'*
> September 25, 2013|By Peter Frost, Chicago Tribune reporter
> Illinois residents will pay slightly less than the national average for
> health[image: http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits>insurance offered under President Barack Obamaspan>'s health care law,
> according to rates released Tuesday by state and federal officials.
> The snapshot provides an early yet incomplete look at how much consumers
> might pay in premiums and comes a week before the launch of new insurance
> exchanges, the online marketplaces in which individuals, families and small
> businesses can compare and buy coverage, often with the help of federal tax
> credits.
> While state and federal officials released broad details on how much those
> plans might cost in certain areas, they did not release exact figures for
> each of the 165 health plans being sold in Illinois, explaining that rates[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits>will not be final until Tuesday. They also did not reveal the specific
> copays and deductibles that most consumers will face when they see a
> doctor, visit an emergency room or undergo surgery.
> Despite that missing information, the new data provide an important
> overview of the kind of options consumers will have. The report also
> demonstrates that many consumers will likely find an affordable option,
> though some may face higher premiums, as critics are quick to point out.
> "We are seeing, across the board, fairly competitive prices," said
> Caroline Pearson, vice president of Avalere Health, a consulting firm
> closely following the rollout of the marketplaces. "The health plans are
> convinced that people will buy based on price, and they are working very
> hard to put low-cost products in the markets."
> The federal analysis also includes specific data only from the 36 states
> that have elected to have the federal government run their marketplaces,
> including Illinois, which is operating in a federal partnership. (Premium
> information from the 14 states operating their own insurance marketplaces,
> including California, Maryland and Connecticut, in most cases is available
> through state websites.)
> In Illinois, the average consumer will be able to choose from 58 health
> plans offered by as many as five insurance companies. In all, eight
> insurers[image: http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits>will offer plans in the state, though not all will sell coverage in each
> region.
> State officials were hesitant to release even a broad overview of rates
> until now because federal regulators were working with insurance companies
> to tweak plans and rates as late as last week, said Andrew Boron, director
> of the Illinois Department of Insurance.
> "We decided to take a conservative approach," Boron said. "But today, what
> we're all really excited to announce is that consumers in Illinois are
> going to have robust options and affordable options."
> According to state and federal data:
> •A single 30-year-old who lives in Cook County and has annual income of
> $23,000 will be able to buy coverage for as little as $69 a month next year
> with the help of $67 in federal tax credits.
> •A Cook County couple, both age 55 and with household income of $40,000,
> can buyhealth insurance[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits>for $70 a month after a $463 tax credit. If that same couple lived in
> Peoria, their monthly premium would be free.
> •A family of four in Illinois with household income of $50,000 will be
> able to buy coverage for $84 a month after a $400 tax credit.
> The health care[image: http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits> law
> established four broad categories of coverage - platinum, gold, silver and
> bronze - where premiums vary based on the amount of out-of-pocket health
> care expenses consumers are required to pay.
> The above rates are based on a bronze plan, the least expensive, which
> requires policyholders to cover 40 percent of the cost of their health
> care. A platinum plan has much higher monthly premiums, but the patient
> share is only 10 percent.
> Illinois insurance officials expect most consumers to choose plans in
> either the silver or bronze category.
> All plans offered on the exchanges require insurers to cover 10 basic
> services called essential health benefits, including maternity care,
> prescription drugs, emergency services, mental health, laboratory services
> and hospitalization. Insurers also must offer plans to all applicants, even
> if they have a pre-existing medical condition like cancer, diabetes or
> hypertension.
> "There have been a lot of products on the market where people would find
> out that they thought they had health insurance, but then they would find
> out that it wouldn't cover hospital visits, for example," said Gary Cohen,
> who oversees the online marketplaces for the federal Department of Health
> and Human Services. "It's important to understand that, because of the
> Affordable Care Act, the health insurance that people will be buying will
> actually cover them in the case of them getting sick."
> Premiums also vary by family size, income, where people live and whether
> they smoke.
> Some plans offered in Chicago, for example, are less expensive than
> identical coverage in Peoria and other parts of Illinois, largely because
> Cook County has more so-called narrow-network plans, which limit the number
> of doctors and hospitals available to consumers and tend to be less
> expensive, state officials said.
> A 40-year-old tobacco user in Cook County would pay $196 for the lowest
> level of coverage, versus $152 for a nonsmoker.
> Illinoisans who make between 138 and 400 percent of the federal poverty
> level - up to $94,200 for a family of four - and aren't offered qualified
> insurance through their employer are eligible for federal tax credits to
> help offset the cost of insurance premiums.
> To receive those subsidies, which vary on a sliding scale based on income
> and age, they must buy a plan offered on the exchange.
> Those whose income falls below that range will be newly eligible for
> Medicaid, the state-federal health insurance[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits/2>program for the poor and disabled.
> The marketplace, or exchange, is scheduled to open Oct. 1; coverage begins
> Jan. 1 for those who buy plans before Dec. 15. Open enrollment lasts until
> March 31. Consumers who do not have health[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits/2>insurance in 2014 will pay an income tax penalty next year, starting at $95
> or 1 percent of household income, whichever is greater.
> Of nearly 1 million in the state eligible for federal tax subsidies to
> help offset the cost of buying insurance, state officials expect only about
> 337,000 to purchase subsidized coverage in 2014.
> While both reports lay out the broad strokes of how much coverage will
> cost, the data do not include the size of an insurer's[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits/2>network of providers like doctors, specialists, health centers and
> hospitals.
> "Everyone wants to do the political thing and talk about rates[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits/2>,
> but no one knows what you're buying yet," said Rich Fahn, president of
> Excell Benefit Group in Northbrook. "Just providing the premium is giving
> an incomplete picture."
> Fahn and Jim Smith, a senior vice president at the health care[image:
> http://images.intellitxt.com/ast/adTypes/icon1.png]<http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-09-25/business/ct-biz-0925-health-rates-20130925_1_health-care-law-health-insurance-federal-tax-credits/2>consulting firm The Camden Group, said the lower premiums on the
> exchange-based insurance products likely indicate consumers will have more
> limited access to certain physicians and hospitals than those covered under
> more expensive, employer-based plans.
> "Carriers are putting together smaller networks to squeeze bigger
> discounts out of providers," Smith said.
> While state and federal officials acknowledge those concerns and said some
> of the plans offered on the exchanges will have narrow networks, they say
> all plans were subject to state and federal requirements that ensure an
> adequate selection of providers.
> "We feel comfortable, as do the feds, that the networks are sufficient,"
> Boron said.
> *Tribune Newspapers reporters Ameet Sachdev<http://bio.tribune.com/ameetsachdev>and Noam Levey contributed.
> *
> *pfrost at tribune.com*
> *Twitter @peterfrost*
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:24 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>
>  Sunil
> I think you are right. All government employees(Federal, State and local)
> have employer sponsored health insurance. So do most of those who work for
> larger companies. Obamacare would cover those who cannot afford insurance
> and those in the low income brackets. The potential problems are that some
> companies will convert some employees to part time. They will be hit with a
> double whammy. Getting insurance on their own will is most cases cost them
> more and they will have a reduced income to pay for it because they are now
> part time. Older folks and the disabled can get Medicare. the Indigent get
> Medicaid. Some of the money to pay for Obamacare is to come out of
> Medicare. Just how or where, I do not know.I pay a little over $100.00 per
> month for Medicare and $66.33 to the University for Part D and Dental,
> which Medicare does not cover. My doctor and has just quit taking Medicare.
> I assume this means I will have to change doctors.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Date: 10/15/13 17:27
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Story in Chicago Tribune Oct.15, 2012
>
> Wayne,
>
> If they are not covered under the Act, isn't it because their insurance is
> covered as an employment benefit? Isn't the same true for University of
> Idaho employees?
>
> Or am I wrong about this?
>
> Sunil
>
> ------------------------------
> From: bear at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 17:15:59 -0700
> To: lfalen at turbonet.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Story in Chicago Tribune Oct.15, 2012
>
> Roger,
> And this is a surprise ?
> Why do you seriously think that neither the White House nor Congress is
> part of "Affordable Health Care"?
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 5:08 PM, lfalen wrote:
>
>
>
> Adam Weldzius, A Nurse Practitioner is privately insured. His monthly
> insurance premium of $233(deductible of $3,500) will more than double. For
> the same coverage his deductible will be $12,500.
> A Tribune analysis shows that 21 pf the 22 lowest plans on the Illinois
> health exchange for Cook County would have annual deductibles of over
> $4,000 for individuals and $8,000 for family coverage.
> People who have health insurance threw their employer have an average
> deductible of $1,100 according to The Kaiser Family Foundation.
>
> This is from a story in the Chicago Tribune. They are not my figures.
> Roger
>
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