[Vision2020] Establishment GOP: Tea Party Must be Stopped. This one's for Roger

[lfalen]

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Nick
Thanks for your comments on my Nutrition posts. Ideology is a mixed blessing. Having strong values is a plus. Like  the song says  " if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything". However if ideology clashes with overwhelming scientific evidence (evolution for example), ideology should give.
Roger


-----Original Message-----
From: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>
To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
Cc: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 10/14/13 10:28
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Establishment GOP: Tea Party Must be Stopped. This one's for Roger

Hi Roger,

Before I continue our debate, I would like to commend you for your informed insights about nutrition and the valuable links that you have posted.


I would have to check the Viz. archives, but I believe my memory serves me well to recall that you previously wrote, without any attribution to the Tea Party, that you believed that Obamacare would hurt people.  That's why I said "again" in my challenge to you to prove that statement.


Thank you for now wishing the program well.  It will only work with the cooperation of ALL of the American people.  As I understand it, most of the Blue States are making good progress in signing people up, but the more GOP governors thwart implementation, the more those states will fall behind in terms of coverage and general health.


Both leftist and rightist ideology is very destructive, and that's why I've always promoted a Buddhist Middle Way between those extremes.


Nick
 


On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 11:26 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
 
Nick
Do you have a tin ear or what? These are not my statement but those of a lot of highly intelligent people. I DO NOT KNOW HOW IT WILL WORK OUT. Only time will tell. I agree with Michael Shearer who said  " whenever ideology and science differ, ideology should give".You are an Ideologue. Even in the event that you are proven wrong, you will stick to your position. You remind me of the guy who said "Every one is insane but me and you. and I sometimes wonder about you." Reasonable people have different views.
I am not very computer proficient and my computer is slow. I spent less than a hour a day on the computer to check my e-mail. I have other better things to do. I use the computer to check my e-mail and that is about all. I do not use face-book or twitter. I sometimes use Excel or Microsoft Word. That is all. My youngest daughter does not answer her cell phone. She leaves a message saying to hang up and send her a text. That I refuse to do. I am stuck in the 20th century and plan on staying there. If you want to know the basis for the arguments against Obnamacare, look them up yourself, But of course you have no interest in doing that. I have tried to be respectful and answer you queries, but if you persist in not getting what I say straight, I will not respond to your BS.
Roger

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>
 
To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
Cc: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 10/12/13 11:43
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Establishment GOP: Tea Party Must be Stopped. This one's for Roger

 
Hi Roger,

The current sequester budget is not a rational proposition at all. The GOP and Obama initially agreed that it was designed to force all legislators to come to a budget compromise. But guess what? The GOP right-wing said: "Great. This will help Grover's plan to drown the feds in their bathtub."  


The sequester has already hurt federal workers, reduced economic growth, and affected national security. The shut-down has done worst, and not raising the debt ceiling will be an absolute disaster. And, you are right, the GOP will be blamed


The continuing resolution is not a piece-meal proposition. At this point in the game neither Obama nor Congress have a line-item veto. Parts should been taken out long ago, not now. Your plan is neither rational nor constitutional. Your piecemeal approach paying off our creditors is equally unworkable. As Obama has effectively repeated: an extreme of one branch of Congress should not be allowed to block the legal functioning of the government. 


Once again, I ask you to specify the harm that ObamaCare is presumably causing. I enlightened you about the success of RomneyCare, so please tell us all about the harm. Specifically you should provide facts for the following claims: "Some people will lose the insurance they now have and that insurance will cost them more. That it will greatly increase the over all cost and taxes." If employers cut their workers' hours and thereby eliminate them from their own plans, then those workers will get their own plans in the exchanges. As far as costs go, the extreme left-wing CBO predicts that the ACA will reduce the deficit, and the slowest growth of premiums has happened under RomneyCare. As per usual, you cannot support your arguments. 


Nick
 


On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:18 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
 
Nick
I am not taking either side. I think that if I agree with someone 80% of the time they are a Friend. I think that both Steve King and Pete Sessions are good and I would not like to see them defeated. By the same token I would not like to see an active campaign to get rid of the Tea Party members. I would like to see an end to the infighting.
 
I do not see why they should pass a blanket bill to fund everything. There are things that should not be funded. Smaller bills to fund certain things make more sense to me. This is what the House is trying to do. The Senate and Obama what all nothing. Just who is responsible for the continued shutdown. The Administration is closing things that do not need to be closed in an attempt to make it as painful as possible in the hopes that the Republicans will be blamed. Unfortunately they will probably be successful.
 
The Tea Party says that Obamacare will hurt the people that is claims to help the most. That some people will lose the insurance they now have and that insurance will cost them more. That it will greatly increase the over all cost and taxes. The left says that it is a great deal. That it will cover people not now covered now and will make insurance more affordable for more people at a reasonable cost. I doubt that things are quite as rosy as the left portrays. I hope that it is not as bad as its opponents think it will be.
Roger



-----Original Message-----
From: "Nicholas Gier" <ngier006 at gmail.com>
To: vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 10/11/13 10:29
Subject: [Vision2020] Establishment GOP: Tea Party Must be Stopped. This one's for Roger

 
 
  
Hi Roger,
As a local establishment Republican, which side are you taking in this national debate.
Inquiring minds wish to know,
Nick
An excerpt:


An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed why these party loyalists are so concerned: More Republicans told pollsters that the GOP is mishandling the shutdown than is handling it well. And among those who say it's being poorly handled, twice as many Republicans say the party is not doing enough to negotiate with Obama than those who say the party is doing too much.
DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - From county chairmen to national party luminaries, veteran Republicans across the country are accusing tea party lawmakers of staining the GOP with their refusal to bend in the budget impasse in Washington. 

The Republican establishment also is signaling a willingness to strike back at the tea party in next fall's elections.

"It's time for someone to act like a grown-up in this process," former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu argues, faulting Texas Sen. Ted Cruz and tea party Republicans in the House as much as President Barack Obama for taking an uncompromising stance.
 

Former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour is just as pointed, saying this about the tea party-fueled refusal to support spending measures that include money for Obamaspan>'s health care law: "It never had a chance."
 
The anger emanating from Republicans like Sununu and Barbour comes just three years after the GOP embraced the insurgent political group and rode its wave of new energy to return to power in the House.

Now, they're lashing out with polls showing Republicans bearing most of the blame for the federal shutdown, which entered its 11th day Friday. In some places, they're laying the groundwork to take action against the tea party in the 2014 congressional elections.

Iowa Republicans are recruiting a pro-business Republican to challenge six-term conservative Rep. Steve King, a leader in the push to defund the health care law. Disgruntled Republicans are further ahead in Michigan, where second-term, tea party-backed Rep. Justin Amash is facing a Republican primary challenger who is more in line with - and being encouraged by - the party establishment. And business interest groups, long aligned with the Republican Party, also are threatening to recruit and fund strong challengers to tea party House members.

Tea party backers are undeterred and assail party leaders.

"They keep compromising," said Katrina Pierson, a former Dallas-area tea party organizer now challenging Rep. Pete Sessions of Texas in the 2014 GOP primary. "They all campaigned on fiscal responsibility. They just need to do what they campaigned on."

In more than a dozen interviews, Republican leaders, officials and strategists at all levels of the party blamed Obama for the shutdown but also faulted tea party lawmakers in the House, who have insisted that any deal to reopen the government be contingent on stripping money for the health care law.

An Associated Press-GfK poll released Wednesday showed why these party loyalists are so concerned: More Republicans told pollsters that the GOP is mishandling the shutdown than is handling it well. And among those who say it's being poorly handled, twice as many Republicans say the party is not doing enough to negotiate with Obama than those who say the party is doing too much.

Party leaders interviewed said the tea party's demands to defund the health care law - and the House leadership's willingness to follow suit - were distracting from what they said is the GOP's best strategy to recover from its 2012 losses: a focus on reducing long-term spending. They said defunding the health care law would not achieve that goal because the money was already flowing to the law.

"At the end of the day, you're fighting legislation that's already passed," said former South Carolina Republican Party Chairman Katon Dawson, describing the fight to defund the health care law as a lost cause.

Republican activists around the country also said in interviews that the shutdown - and House Republicans' demands - have deflected attention from problems with the launch of key parts to the health care bill.

Thousands of Americans were unable to shop for health insurance on the online marketplaces when they went live on Oct. 1 because of software glitches. And, these Republicans say, the GOP in Washington - and specifically tea party House members - got in the way of the troubled rollout, which the GOP could have seized on if the government were still open.

"We're not saying Obama is right. We're saying what Republicans are doing is wrong," said Matt Cox, a former executive director of Ohio's Cuyahoga County GOP. He said that instead of pursuing the shutdown strategy, Republicans in Washington could have passed - and taken credit for - a spending measure that kept dollar levels at those set by the automatic $1.2 trillion across-the-board cut approved last year, also called the sequester.

Generally, these Republicans said that because of the tea party's effort to defund the health care law, the Republican Party had missed an opportunity to hammer Obama after he hit a rough patch over Syria just a month ago.

Former Illinois state Sen. Laura Douglas wants to believe that the holdouts can win. But she has her doubts.

"My heart says, 'Keep fighting, don't give up,'" said Douglas, a resident of Quincy in western Illinois. "But my head says, 'If we keep this kind of thing up, we're going to get creamed next year.'"

Her worries are reflected in the AP-GfK poll. Roughly three-quarters of Republicans nationally said their party in Congress deserves a moderate degree or most of the blame for the shutdown.

Even among Republicans, those who don't support the tea party mostly disapprove of how the GOP is handling the budget issue. Just 17 percent of Americans overall consider themselves tea party backers.

And tea party allies are fighting back.

The Senate Conservatives Fund, an independent political action committee, has run ads asking tea party supporters to recruit primary election opponents for Republicans who voted for a measure that would have kept the government running with modifications in the health care law.

In South Carolina, Fairfield County Republican Chairman Kevin Thomas is among those on the side of tea party lawmakers.

"The only leverage we have is the budget," he said.
 
 
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