[Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Sun Mar 3 09:19:21 PST 2013
Mr. Crabtree -
I am not attempting to discredit polygamy (although I do not support it). That is NOT what this discussion is about. I am simply (and for the umpteenth and final time) expressing my opinion that same-sex marriages should be acknowledged as legitimate and constitutionally sound as guaranteed by the 14th amendment.
Don't wait for the movie. Read the text . . .
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
Another thing . . .
I am not assuming any moral authority.
I am simply expressing my opinion.
It seems rather peculiar, yet is becoming quite common, that if I (or Joe Campbell or Wayne Fox or . . . ) express our substantiated opinions we are accused of wrongfully assuming moral authority.
'Nuff said!!!!
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
On Mar 3, 2013, at 8:49 AM, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> What you conveniently leave out is the why. If to deny any two an "experience" is lacking in the slightest inkling of human compassion why not three or more? If you are asking me to accept your statement based on your irrefutable moral authority you are asking far too much.
>
> g
>
> On Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps you missed it in my post, Mr. Crabtree.
>>
>> So, here it is AGAIN.
>>
>> "To deny ANY TWO [emphasis added] individuals of such an experience, merely because it runs contra to somebody else's belief system, lacks the slightest inkling of human compassion."
>>
>> http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2013-March/089517.html
>>
>> Two: More than one and less than three.
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 3, 2013, at 6:29 AM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not sure what else I can take away. I have heard that the topic is "complex" and that you don't wish to "confuse the issue." What I have not heard is the slice of logic that would refute the statement that so outraged Mr. Hansen and kicked off this thread. Perhaps I wasn't paying proper attention. Please state for me clearly and without obfuscation the argument in favor of homosexual marriage the can not be applied equally to polygamous unions. An analogy as to why homosexual marriage doesn't necessarily lead to polygamy is not at all the same thing. It seems to me that without anyone being able to provide the example that differentiates between the two, Wilson's "fallacious claim" stands without refute.
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>> From: Joe Campbell
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 6:12 PM
>>> To: Gary Crabtree
>>> Cc: Tom Hansen ; Paul Rumelhart ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?
>>>
>>> It pains me that I take my time to carefully spell out why I don't think these are the same at all, legally etc., but your takeaway, Gary, is that I add support to Wilson's fallacious claim.
>>>
>>> An analogy similar to one I used before: Saying that legalization of gay marriage will lead to legalization of polygamy is like saying that sex with your wife will lead to an orgy. I see no reason for thinking the one than for thinking the other. After all, if you've got reasons for sex with one person WHY NOT sex with many? Just the same reason over again, right? But even you can see the line here, Gary, even though these issues are vague. And so can members of the Supreme Court when it comes to differentiating between gay marriage and polygamy.
>>>
>>> This says nothing about my views on polygamy, and for a number of reasons I don't think it is helpful to talk about polygamy while we're working on gay marriage -- for one thing, though bad, slippery-slope arguments happen to be persuasive. My point is I COULD hold that gay marriage is OK and polygamy is not and not be guilty of an inconsistency because of it. This is a refutation of the Wilson claim.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:58 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>> "I argued at length that all the arguments employed to advance same sex marriage can be, are being, and will be used to advance polygamy also. In short, gay marriage greases the skids for polygamy."
>>>>
>>>> If nothing else this thread has certainly proven Doug to be spot on in his analysis. Goodness knows that’s gotta sting.
>>>>
>>>> g
>>>>
>>>> From: Joe Campbell
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 6:06 PM
>>>> To: Gary Crabtree
>>>> Cc: Tom Hansen ; Paul Rumelhart ; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not denying anything. Maybe three or more. I just don't want to confuse it with the issue of same-sex marriage. That seems important to me, just because I can see the folks that such a law might help. I don't happen to meet many polygamists, so I'm not too concerned for now.
>>>>
>>>> Why not take one step: include same-sex marriages. If the polygamists complain as much as the gays and lesbians, we might have to revisit the issue.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 5:25 PM, Gary Crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>>> Then why deny three or more?
>>>>>
>>>>> g
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Tom Hansen
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 2:07 PM
>>>>> To: Paul Rumelhart
>>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?
>>>>>
>>>>> I absolutely fail to see what the happiness of two adults has ANYTHING to do with a polygamous relationship.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me simply say . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> Later this year, I turn 62, my spouse turns whatever age she acquires, and we (my spouse and I) turn 40; forty of the most wonderfully memorable and loving years of yesterdays that will only be improved upon with tomorrows.
>>>>>
>>>>> To deny ANY two individuals of such an experience, merely because it runs contra to somebody else's belief system, lacks the slightest inkling of human compassion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>>
>>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 1, 2013, at 1:48 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the general argument would run something like this: "if it's OK for any two consenting adults of either gender to marry, then why isn't it OK for any three or more consenting adults of any gender to marry?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If that's what he's thinking, I can kind of see his point. Of course, I'm personally fine with gay marriage, and would have no problems with polygamy either. I'd be happiest if the government got out of the marriage racket to begin with, frankly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 1, 2013 11:39 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Huh? Say WHAT!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, if he argued that polygamy and gay marriage are similar, then that is just another fallacious argument. It is like arguing that we can give every adult the right to vote because that would lead to some folks voting more than once. We would be powerless to avoid that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Cultmaster Wilson is hopelessly floundering as he is swept out to sea on the tide of reality and oncoming change. But that's what happens to those that allege total faith in some "inerrant" ancient texts. Foolhardiness begets misery for others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's too bad that the Cultmaster is not a Mormon so that he could have a "new" vision from some alleged God correcting his current views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> w.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "I argued at length that all the arguments employed to advance same sex marriage can be, are being, and will be used to advance polygamy also. In short, gay marriage greases the skids for polygamy."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Doug Wilson (March 1, 2013)
>>>>>> http://www.dougwils.com/Sex-and-Culture/a-century-of-sinkholes.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>>>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>>>>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>>>>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - John Lennon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>>>>> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>
>> =======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> =======================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20130303/55d03d0e/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list