[Vision2020] How's this for a scenario . . .

[Scott Dredge]

Tom,

I suggest that you educate yourself on the definition and application of
 the word 'democracy'.  You either have no clue or are very misinformed or you're just making things up as you go along.

<You initially wrote that democracy is cool.>
 It's not.  It sucks.  The founding fathers were aware of the fact that it sucks.

<You
now  write 'Not ALL democracy aligns itself with the concept presented by 
Prop 8.'>
What does this statement mean???  The concept presented by prop
 8 had nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with defining 'only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.'  It was passed by a majority vote - there's your democracy / 
mob-ocracy in action.  Not so cool anymore...is it?

<You continue 
'Democracy is not perfect.  It never will be, simply based on its 
premise that all cultures must be accepted.'>
These two things - 
'democracy' and 'the premise that all cultures must be accepted' are 
diametrically opposed.  The former being 'mob rule', the latter being 'protected against mob rule'.

<You end with 'it was a democratic government that gave birth to [the armed forces]'.>
This is incorrect if you are referring to the United States system of government.

<As for your dismissal of ''Nuff said.'>
Correct...the horse has been lead to the water, so 'nuff said'.

-Scott

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 12:17:49 -0700
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; jeannemchale at hotmail.com; fritzknorr at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How's this for a scenario . . .

Sunil -
Not ALL democracy aligns itself with the concept presented by Prop 8.  Democracy is not perfect.  It never will be, simply based on its premise that all cultures must be accepted.  For, within each culture, belief system, and political philosophy is its own fundamental outliers unwilling to discuss tough questions and openly confront tough situations.
Granted, the armed forces are an authoritarian "society".  Yet, it was a democratic government that gave birth to it, is responsible for it, and ontrols it.
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
 

On Jun 29, 2013, at 11:59 AM, Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:




Tom,

Scott isn't arguing with the outcome. He's saying it's NOT the product of democracy. I'd say that this outcome is the result of progress.

When I saw your post, I thought the same thing: This isn't the product of democracy, though I too agree with the outcome. Since Prop 8 was a referendum passed by the people, democracy produced discrimination. The least democratic of the three branches of government overturned it.

I agree with what the DoD or at least the Army is doing here, but I think you know better than I do that it's not a democratic institution.

Sunil

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2013 10:40:54 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; jeannemchale at hotmail.com; fritzknorr at gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] How's this for a scenario . . .

As I have stated, posted links, and emphaized so many times before . . .
The facts substantiate my claim.
My claims are related to the military and the measures being implemented by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) in relation to same-sex relationships/marriages, and the entitlements granted by the DoD to those relationships/marriages.  
The U.S. Department of Defense (the Army, at least) "guarantees equal liberty".
Now, unless you can substantiate your statement with something other than your imagination and a bad attitude, I have only two words for you . . .
'Nuff said.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
 

On Jun 29, 2013, at 10:03 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Yes - same question I posed below.  You didn't answer it. 
Care to try again with a system that guarantees equal liberty?
Hint: it ain't Democracy. Reason: Democracy does not guarantee equal liberty. This is a simple fact, Mr. Hansen, and yet one that fail repeatedly to comprehend because if you did, you wouldn't write things such as 'Democracy is, like, soooooooo cool, dude!'
-Scott
On Jun 29, 2013, at 9:07 AM, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

This is no longer fiction.  It IS reality, Mr. Dredge, in case hou haven't been keeping up on the news.
The Army will soon (later this year, once billeting is designed and implemented) begin allowing female soldiers into combat MOS's (military occupational specialties) including infantry.
The Department of Defense will, commencing September 1st, allow same-sex couples (like that couple that recently exchanged nuptials at West Point) to move into government housing, like the government quarters at Fort Benning, Georgia.
These are simple facts, Mr. Dredge.
Any questions?
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
 

On Jun 29, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

Democracy aka 'Majority Rule' aka 'Tyranny of the Majority' is cool?  It would prevent the scenario which you've cited.
Care to try again with some other system that guarantees equal liberty?

-Scott
On Jun 29, 2013, at 7:02 AM, "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

. . . one which I never thought possible?
A female soldier . . . upon successful completion of infantry training . . . and assignment to 1st Battalion, 75th Rangers . . . moves into her government housing . . . in the state of Georgia . . . with her wife.
Democracy is, like, soooooooo cool, dude!

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
 
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==============================================================================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
==============================================================================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 		 	   		  
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 		 	   		  
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