[Vision2020] systemic injustice

Tue Jul 23 04:44:11 PDT 2013

"Substantiating" evidence, Mr. Dredge.

Two lacerations (pronounced "cuts") are hardly evidence that Martin had repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head to a concrete sidewalk.  For all anybody knows those "lacerations" may have been self-inflicted (my opinion).  Otherwise the cranial damage would have been anticipated to be a lot worse (as that same physician testified on cross-examination).

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Jul 22, 2013, at 11:24 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Tom wrote: 'There is absolutely no substantiating evidence that Martin repeatedly pounded Zimmerman's head onto the concrete sidewalk.  Zimmerman was never examined by a physician.'
> 
> <sigh>
> 
> 'A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.'
> 
> 'The morning after the shooting, on Feb. 27, Zimmerman sought treatment at the offices of a general physician at a family practice near Sanford, Fla. The doctor notes Zimmerman sought an appointment to get legal clearance to return to work. '
> 
> Full story at:
> http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/storynew?id=16353532
> 
> I believe she also testified on the witness stand.
> 
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 19:02:28 -0700
> To: godshatter at yahoo.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> 
> There is absolutely no substantiating evidence that Martin repeatedly pounded Zimmerman's head onto the concrete sidewalk.  Zimmerman was never examined by a physician.  Other than a couple superficial (the detective's word, not mine) wounds.
> 
> As far as the supposed statement made by Martin, "Today you die," (repeated word-for-word a few times during the trial) . . . You HAVE GOT to be joking.  By Martin's girlfriend's admission, Martin used terms like "cracker".  I'm guessing that if Martin had truly made a threat to Zimmerman, that threat would have included some inciting profanity, not a Dirty Harry line from a cheap B-movie.
> 
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> 
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>   
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still 
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> 
> - John Lennon
>  
> 
> 
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:35 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Martin punching Zimmerman in the face and pounding his head into the pavement repeatedly and then telling he was going to die when he noticed his gun doesn't factor into it at all?  It *has* to be about race?  
> 
> Fine.  I just don't get it.  Enjoy your fantasy.  Be sure to get extra outraged about it for me, ok?
> 
> Paul
> 
> On 07/22/2013 06:13 PM, Sue Hovey wrote:
> Weighing in on this topic for the first time, but briefly; I think, "white guy stalks and guns down an innocent black teenager" is exactly what happened. 
>  
> Sue H
>  
> From: Sunil Ramalingam
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 6:03 PM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com ; godshatter at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>  
> Disservice to Zimmerman? He killed a kid because he's a dumbshit cop wannabe, and you're concerned about disservices to that sphincter?
> 
> I didn't follow the case closely and I don't know if there was enough evidence to convict. I won't criticize the verdict because I would gladly take it if I were Zimmerman's lawyer.
> 
> But I think the cops did a poor job at the beginning and that affected everything that followed. And anyone who pretends race doesn't affect the criminal justice system is full of crap.
> 
> Sunil 
> 
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 16:47:10 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> I agree he should have gone home.  I just don't like the mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin through the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because he was black.  That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only done because he had the gall to be carrying a handgun on his person in a political environment where gun control is all the rage, and because he wasn't charged with second degree murder immediately (through no fault of his own).  Oh, and because everyone wants to think of him as white, and therefore "entitled".
> 
> So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence to convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges?  Did the jury, in your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their verdict?  Also, do you think "white guy stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" is a fair summary of the events that happened that night?
> 
> Paul
> 
>  
> From: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>  
> Paul,
> 
> Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish last week; you're well beyond that now.
> 
> I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe what others are saying until you comprehend that Zimmerman should have listened to the dispatcher and gone home. This happened because he had a gun; if he didn't he would have gone home.
> 
> He had called 911; he was done.
> 
> Sunil
> 
> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
> 
> I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  I don't think the jury verdict is an example of systemic racism.                                That was my original point.  They just didn't have the evidence needed to convict.  From looking at the evidence myself, I support their decision.  Race doesn't enter into it, it's just a conclusion based on the evidence.
> 
> I do see two places where systemic racism might have occurred:
> 
> 1. When the police decided not to arrest Zimmerman at the very beginning.  I'm assuming the police didn't arrest him because they didn't think they had a case, which was born out by the not guilty verdict.  They probably should have arrested him anyway and let the courts figure that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him because he was white/hispanic.  That's certainly possible.  It's also possible that it had more to do with the fact that he knew them.  That would be cronyism, though.
> 
> 2. The other place where I see systemic racism is in how the media and the liberal community both are treating this case.  NBC doctored the 911 call at the very beginning to make it look like racial profiling, and everyone seems to have jumped on that bandwagon.  This didn't have to be about race.  The fact that it became about race shows a large element of systemic racism in our media and in many other areas, including in political circles.  I've seen nothing to make me think that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black.  Because he was suspicious, sure.  Because he was a teenager, maybe. But not because of his race.
> 
> I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational way, with your characterization of people posting here about the "rightness of the death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante".  I have never said that Trayvon Martin should have died, nor have I expressed an opinion about whether or not I would think that a good thing.  I haven't seen anyone else do so, either.  I've just been trying to express why I think the jury's verdict made sense, and to counter the "white guy stalks and guns down an innocent black teenager" meme that, based on the evidence, seems to be made out of whole cloth.
> 
> I do think that Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman, if that is indeed what happened.  The evidence I've seen points that way.  I think it's tragic that he died, especially since this whole confrontation could have easily been avoided by both Martin and Zimmerman.
> 
> Paul
> 
>  
> From: "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
> To: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>  
> To those who insist on posting the rightness of the death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante, I post a soft spoken message. And I would remind you that your words may be hurtful...
>  
> I live in a bubble far removed from the rest of the country and my past. When, as a young man, I moved to Moscow from just north of the Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved to be free from all the issues of race. Yea, I'm white. Privileged by my birth. As a kid, race and ethnicity were overwhelming to me. Italians hated the Irish, Poles were disliked and distrusted by almost everyone. The blacks didn't like whites in general. Whites distrusted blacks. Everyone had names for everyone else's ethnicity. Whops, spics, hunkies, kikes, hillbillies... the list of derogatory names goes on and on.
> I was despised because of being sometimes Irish, sometimes a sort of Polack. I learned to run and run fast to keep from being beaten up by what ever group that happened to cross my path. However, I didn't see/understand systemic racism until our Boy Scout troop tried to go swimming in the CITY pool. They stopped us because we were an integrated troop. Being young I never stopped to think why there never were black kids in the pool...EVER. The man that stopped us was a "greasy" (another derogatory slur)Greek with kinky hair and a pretty dark complexion. He stopped Jerome with his arm saying, "Not You!" Our scout master must have known what he was up to, and to this day I hold him in high esteem as a brave and principled man.  And when that Greek guy stopped him from entering the locker, I looked at Jerome, and maybe for the first time saw him as a black kid with whom I had camped, sang, cooked dinners, and saw what his life entailed. It was much more than name calling, being hated, distrusted. It was a system of hatred.                                            
>  
> Back to the bubble thing...
> So I moved here and left ethnicity and race issues behind. Well, not really. It isn't so much an issue here because the majority, the vast majority of people are white, like me. It is inevitable that this will change. It is already changing and changing rapidly. How will this area deal with race and ethnicity? There are hate groups and hateful people conveniently located nearby. We need to be vigilant with our communities, and with ourselves. It is convenient to be blind to the hatred surrounding us. 
>  
> I suppose one good thing that the so called "jury" in Florida proved is that SYSTEMIC racism still exists. I sometimes forget that. I live in a bubble. Now I am reminded, but should a young man's life be sacrificed so that I would again see? People who deny that injustice exists live in a state of blind shame.   
>  
> 
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>               http://www.fsr.net
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>               http://www.fsr.net
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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