[Vision2020] systemic injustice

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 22 17:21:32 PDT 2013 

Fine.  The race stuff I added was in response to how everyone makes this 
into a race issue.  Here is a quote from Tom Hansen:

"George Zimmerman, an armed 28-year old neighborhood watch, follows, 
shoots and kills Trayvon Martin, a 17-year old boy (armed with Skittles) 
who lives in the neighborhood in which he was killed."

Is that a fair characterization of the events that transpired that night?

Paul

On 07/22/2013 05:13 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
> No one is characterizing the issue the way you did below. You should 
> have more care and respect for others when talking about this issue.
>
> On Jul 22, 2013, at 4:47 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com 
> <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
>> I agree he should have gone home.  I just don't like the 
>> mis-characterization of him as some guy that stalked Martin through 
>> the trees and murdered him in cold blood only because he was black.  
>> That's a disservice to Zimmerman, and it's only done because he had 
>> the gall to be carrying a handgun on his person in a political 
>> environment where gun control is all the rage, and because he wasn't 
>> charged with second degree murder immediately (through no fault of 
>> his own).  Oh, and because everyone wants to think of him as white, 
>> and therefore "entitled".
>>
>> So let me ask you, do you think there was sufficient evidence to 
>> convict Zimmerman on second degree murder charges?  Did the jury, in 
>> your personal opinion, show systemic racism in their verdict?  Also, 
>> do you think "white guy stalks and guns down innocent black teenager" 
>> is a fair summary of the events that happened that night?
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>> <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 4:25 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Your defense of Zimmerman stopped being outlandish last week; you're 
>> well beyond that now.
>>
>> I don't think you should use 'meme' to describe what others are 
>> saying until you comprehend that Zimmerman should have listened to 
>> the dispatcher and gone home. This happened because he had a gun; if 
>> he didn't he would have gone home.
>>
>> He had called 911; he was done.
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 11:42:56 -0700
>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> To: rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>; 
>> vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>
>> I respectfully disagree with your conclusion.  I don't think the jury 
>> verdict is an example of systemic racism.  That was my original 
>> point.  They just didn't have the evidence needed to convict.  From 
>> looking at the evidence myself, I support their decision.  Race 
>> doesn't enter into it, it's just a conclusion based on the evidence.
>>
>> I do see two places where systemic racism might have occurred:
>>
>> 1. When the police decided not to arrest Zimmerman at the very 
>> beginning.  I'm assuming the police didn't arrest him because they 
>> didn't think they had a case, which was born out by the not guilty 
>> verdict.  They probably should have arrested him anyway and let the 
>> courts figure that out, though. Maybe they didn't arrest him because 
>> he was white/hispanic.  That's certainly possible. It's also possible 
>> that it had more to do with the fact that he knew them.  That would 
>> be cronyism, though.
>>
>> 2. The other place where I see systemic racism is in how the media 
>> and the liberal community both are treating this case.  NBC doctored 
>> the 911 call at the very beginning to make it look like racial 
>> profiling, and everyone seems to have jumped on that bandwagon.  This 
>> didn't have to be about race.  The fact that it became about race 
>> shows a large element of systemic racism in our media and in many 
>> other areas, including in political circles.  I've seen nothing to 
>> make me think that Zimmerman targeted Martin because he was black.  
>> Because he was suspicious, sure.  Because he was a teenager, maybe. 
>> But not because of his race.
>>
>> I also object, in a nice, non-confrontational way, with your 
>> characterization of people posting here about the "rightness of the 
>> death of a boy at the hands of a vigilante".  I have never said that 
>> Trayvon Martin should have died, nor have I expressed an opinion 
>> about whether or not I would think that a good thing.  I haven't seen 
>> anyone else do so, either.  I've just been trying to express why I 
>> think the jury's verdict made sense, and to counter the "white guy 
>> stalks and guns down an innocent black teenager" meme that, based on 
>> the evidence, seems to be made out of whole cloth.
>>
>> I do think that Martin should not have attacked Zimmerman, if that is 
>> indeed what happened.  The evidence I've seen points that way.  I 
>> think it's tragic that he died, especially since this whole 
>> confrontation could have easily been avoided by both Martin and 
>> Zimmerman.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* "rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>" 
>> <rhayes at frontier.com <mailto:rhayes at frontier.com>>
>> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>" 
>> <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 22, 2013 10:43 AM
>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] systemic injustice
>>
>> To those who insist on posting the rightness of the death of a boy at 
>> the hands of a vigilante, I post a soft spoken message. And I would 
>> remind you that your words may be hurtful...
>> I live in a bubble far removed from the rest of the country and my 
>> past. When, as a young man, I moved to Moscow from just north of the 
>> Mason-Dixon line, I was relieved to be free from all the issues of 
>> race. Yea, I'm white. Privileged by my birth. As a kid, race and 
>> ethnicity were overwhelming to me. Italians hated the Irish, Poles 
>> were disliked and distrusted by almost everyone. The blacks didn't 
>> like whites in general. Whites distrusted blacks. Everyone had names 
>> for everyone else's ethnicity. Whops, spics, hunkies, kikes, 
>> hillbillies... the list of derogatory names goes on and on.
>> I was despised because of being sometimes Irish, sometimes a sort of 
>> Polack. I learned to run and run fast to keep from being beaten up by 
>> what ever group that happened to cross my path. However, I didn't 
>> see/understand systemic racism until our Boy Scout troop tried to go 
>> swimming in the CITY pool. They stopped us because we were 
>> an integrated troop. Being young I never stopped to think why 
>> there never were black kids in the pool...EVER. The man that stopped 
>> us was a "greasy" (another derogatory slur)Greek with kinky hair and 
>> a pretty dark complexion. He stopped Jerome with his arm saying, "Not 
>> You!" Our scout master must have known what he was up to, and to this 
>> day I hold him in high esteem as a brave and principled man.  And 
>> when that Greek guy stopped him from entering the locker, I looked at 
>> Jerome, and maybe for the first time saw him as a black kid with whom 
>> I had camped, sang, cooked dinners, and saw what his life entailed. 
>> It was much more than name calling, being hated, distrusted. It was a 
>> system of hatred.
>> Back to the bubble thing...
>> So I moved here and left ethnicity and race issues behind. Well, not 
>> really. It isn't so much an issue here because the majority, the vast 
>> majority of people are white, like me. It is inevitable that this 
>> will change. It is already changing and changing rapidly. How will 
>> this area deal with race and ethnicity? There are hate groups and 
>> hateful people conveniently located nearby. We need to be vigilant 
>> with our communities, and with ourselves. It is convenient to be 
>> blind to the hatred surrounding us.
>> I suppose one good thing that the so called "jury" in Florida proved 
>> is that SYSTEMIC racism still exists. I sometimes forget that. I live 
>> in a bubble. Now I am reminded, but should a young man's life be 
>> sacrificed so that I would again see? People who deny that injustice 
>> exists live in a state of blind shame.
>>
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