[Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
Joe Campbell
philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Thu Jul 18 17:05:13 PDT 2013
I can on board with this. Joe
On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>wrote:
> We don't know what happened at the interaction. It is silly that anyone
> pretends they do. Zimmerman's story changed in the early goings thus
> casting doubt on its truth.
>
> I think he lied to the police from the beginning. He certainly lied about
> the defense funds that were collected. However, given how the trial was
> conducted, I think it would have been difficult to find him guilty beyond a
> reasonable doubt.
>
> Some places, like Scotland, have three possible verdicts: guilty, not
> guilty, not proven. I think the latter would have been more fitting here,
> especially after the judge refused to allow the expert voice stress
> analysis tests showing that it wasn't Zimmerman screaming/shouting for help.
>
> w
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Anything is possible. It is possible that you are in the Matrix world.
>>
>> What I don't understand is why you let loose the possibilities when it
>> affects your beliefs but you hold them tight when it goes against those
>> beliefs.
>>
>> In truth, I can understand your point. I'm not trying to condemn
>> Zimmerman. He was naive and because of that got caught up in an unfortunate
>> situation. But let's be fair about this situation. A young man, perhaps
>> aggressive (unlike most young men?!?) but nonetheless walking in his
>> neighborhood was stalked and shot and killed.
>>
>> You pretend to be in favor of freedom but if a black man is not free to
>> walk around in his own neighborhood without being stalked and then shot
>> then WTF. Freedom doesn't mean squat.
>>
>> Best, Joe
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>
>>> This is what I don't get. You write "There should have been more
>>> evidence and why there wasn't is a story that, in part, touches on
>>> institutional racism." Isn't it possible that they didn't have more
>>> evidence of second degree murder because it simply didn't exist, and that
>>> your preconceived notions about him are wrong? One could even call them
>>> "racist", because if the evidence doesn't actually exist you are assuming
>>> that it is there because you are assuming he was targeting blacks. That's
>>> called reaching a conclusion before all the facts are in.
>>>
>>> You also write "Not to mention that Zimmerman likely would not have been
>>> following around a white kid who lived in the neighborhood." How could you
>>> possibly know this? Hell, Zimmerman didn't even self-identify as "white".
>>> Wouldn't he, in his gung-ho neighborhood watch kind of way, be targeting
>>> anyone he didn't know? I've seen no evidence that Zimmerman was motivated
>>> even partly by race in this, but I see it assumed all over the damned
>>> place. To the tune of credible death threats to both himself and his
>>> parents.
>>>
>>> The guy was found not guilty in a court of law. Shouldn't that be the
>>> end of it?
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Keely Emerine-Mix <
>>> siyocreo at live.com>; Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>; viz <
>>> vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2013 2:59 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>> I appreciate your contributions on this, Scott.
>>>
>>> What Roger is missing in the previous post is that I'm not condemning
>>> the jurors. I think there was a failure in the justice system -- broadly
>>> construed -- that was essentially racist, if we want to be honest about it.
>>> But I don't think the failure was with the verdict. Given the laws, given
>>> the evidence, likely the verdict was correct.
>>>
>>> And here is a positive thing about all this -- that I think you'll like
>>> too, Scott: the justice system -- narrowly construed -- for all its
>>> criticisms, might be just fine; given the evidence, they made the right
>>> decision. There should have been more evidence and why there wasn't is a
>>> story that, in part, touches on institutional racism.
>>>
>>> Not to mention that Zimmerman likely would not have been following
>>> around a white kid who lived in the neighborhood.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 18, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>> My Tuesday morning quarterback analysis of this would be that in the
>>> heat of the moment neither Zimmerman nor Martin were thinking rationally.
>>> I disagree with Gary about 'Martin's decision' but wouldn't call that
>>> opinion 'stupid'. My guess is that Martin eventually went into 'fight or
>>> flight' type of mindset once he realized he was being tracked. He's only
>>> 17 years old, he wouldn't have much real world experience in diffusing
>>> confrontations. Once this kind of situation escalated to the point where
>>> there both scrapping, I'd expect adrenaline rushes and survival instincts
>>> to be kicking in with both of them. They were fighting. All bets are off
>>> at this point with the edge going to Zimmerman since he would was aware
>>> that he was in possession of a gun.
>>>
>>> -Scott
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 12:06:11 -0700
>>> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>>> To: siyocreo at live.com; moscowlocksmith at gmail.com;
>>> philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>> I don't see where you are coming from, Keely. You are responding to
>>> this paragraph, right?
>>>
>>> "Poor decisions were made by both Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman's
>>> decisions may have been ill considered (following on foot if that is in
>>> fact what he did) but legal. Martin's decision to leap out of the bushes
>>> and assault a stranger instead of simply continuing on the seventy yard to
>>> his fathers girlfriends home was not."
>>>
>>> Where is the intellectual dishonesty? Why do you think this analysis is
>>> "stupid"?
>>>
>>> Someone leaving their vehicle and walking down a sidewalk behind someone
>>> else is not, in fact, illegal. Neither is following him in an SUV while
>>> talking to the police. It was probably not a brilliant idea on Zimmerman's
>>> part, but not illegal. If Zimmerman's account is correct, Martin
>>> confronted him, knocked him to the ground with a punch to the nose, and
>>> continued to beat his head into the pavement for about a minute. We don't
>>> know for certain, of course, that what Zimmerman says is true, but it seems
>>> to be supported by the evidence. He had a broken nose, cuts on the back of
>>> his head, and bruises on his face. When the police played an audio
>>> recording of the screams during the event for Martin's father, he was asked
>>> if he thought it was his son screaming. He replied "no". When they played
>>> the recording for Zimmerman's father, he replied that he thought it was his
>>> son and that he sounded like he was screaming for his life.
>>>
>>> Confronting someone and knocking him to the ground and then pummeling
>>> him with blows crosses a definite line. Zimmerman claims that he was
>>> trying to move back off the concrete when Martin saw his gun. He then
>>> allegedly told Zimmerman that he was "going to die tonight". That's when
>>> he shot him.
>>>
>>> As I said before, it appears that the "white guy stalks and then guns
>>> down a defenseless black child" meme doesn't fit this case. Martin could
>>> have avoided a confrontation simply by continuing to walk home to his dad's
>>> girlfriend's place. I agree with the jury that there was no evidence for
>>> second degree murder, certainly not beyond a reasonable doubt.
>>>
>>> Just forget how the media wants to portray this event, and think about
>>> this possible scenario:
>>>
>>> Zimmerman is tired of a spate of recent burglaries in his community, and
>>> wants to do something about it. He joins the local neighborhood watch. He
>>> does what you should do on the neighborhood watch, he phones anything he
>>> sees as suspicious in to the police.
>>>
>>> Now comes the night in question. He sees a teenager walking through the
>>> neighborhood in the rain in the dark wearing black clothes and a black
>>> hoodie that covers his face. He does what he has always done at this
>>> point, he calls it in. He follows him to keep tabs on where he is until
>>> the police get there. When they ask him his location, he can't tell them
>>> precisely. Maybe because it's dark and rainy outside and he hasn't been
>>> paying attention to his exact location as he tries to keep him in sight.
>>> So he gets out of his SUV, walks down the block until he can see a street
>>> sign, and then starts to walk back to his vehicle. He is then confronted
>>> by Martin, a confrontation he tries to avoid, and he gets attacked. He's
>>> on the ground, Martin is straddling him, punching him in the face and
>>> causing his head to get smashed into the sidewalk. Zimmerman, still trying
>>> to get away rather than fight, tries to scooch back to the grass so that
>>> his head isn't getting smashed into the concrete anymore. In doing so, his
>>> clothes get disheveled and his concealed weapon shows. Martin threatens
>>> his life, and Zimmerman (probably fearing that he's going to go for his
>>> gun) shoots him.
>>>
>>> The police arrive, do a little investigating, and determine that there
>>> is no case for further charges that they think could stick, so they let him
>>> go. The resulting media frenzy ensues, and he now has a $10,000 reward on
>>> his life courtesy of the New Black Panthers. Spike Lee, thinking he knew
>>> where he was staying, tweets his location only to send the elderly couple
>>> that lived there fleeing for their lives. Zimmerman is in hiding, can't go
>>> to work, and fears for his life on a daily basis. The police, shamed in
>>> public by basically everyone, bring charges after all. People all across
>>> the country think he stalked the poor kid and shot him, when he was just
>>> trying to find out exactly where he was.
>>>
>>> Now he is acquitted at trial, and people still think he's some kind of
>>> wannabee serial killer of small black children or something. People like
>>> Saundra call him a "monster". Rallies are held around the country, some of
>>> them quite violent.
>>>
>>> This is Zimmerman's story, which is routinely tossed aside by those who
>>> wish to follow the media's take on things. From my perspective, it's at
>>> least as plausible as the story of him being racially motivated to gun that
>>> kid down. It appears to be consistent with the evidence. It's a story
>>> that comes directly from the only living witness to the event.
>>>
>>> Do I know what happened, exactly, that night? No, I don't. But neither
>>> does anyone else save Zimmerman himself.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com>
>>> *To:* Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>; Joe Campbell <
>>> philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, July 18, 2013 10:51 AM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>> I'm going to briefly abandon my attempts to civil and thoughtful for a
>>> moment and say, Gary, the only thing that I can muster in regard to your
>>> final paragraph:
>>>
>>> That's the most bizarre, facile, intellectually dishonest and frankly
>>> stupid analysis of this whole travesty I've ever heard.
>>>
>>> Keely
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 06:51:51 -0700
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>> From: moscowlocksmith at gmail.com
>>> To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> CC: lfalen at turbonet.com; vision2020 at moscow.com; siyocreo at live.com
>>>
>>> I very strongly suspect that the likelihood of being jumped and beaten
>>> by one of the local seventeen year olds would be vanishingly small to
>>> the point that to bet otherwise would be to throw away cash.
>>>
>>> I have to imagine that it's fun for some to endlessly bang away at the
>>> "stalked the poor child" narrative but, an equally valid perspective would
>>> be that Zimmerman was performing a public service to his community by being
>>> involved in a neighborhood watch program and was in no way attempting to be
>>> surreptitious or covert in his attention to Martin's presence.
>>>
>>> Poor decisions were made by both Zimmerman and Martin. Zimmerman's
>>> decisions may have been ill considered (following on foot if that is in
>>> fact what he did) but legal. Martin's decision to leap out of the bushes
>>> and assault a stranger instead of simply continuing on the seventy yard to
>>> his fathers girlfriends home was not.
>>>
>>>
>>> g
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 9:44 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> The best point to make is not that Zimmerman was racist, or that the
>>> jurors were racist. There is no basis for either assertion.
>>>
>>> That doesn't mean the case isn't symptomatic of a kind of persistent
>>> institutionalized racism. You say first reports were that Zimmerman
>>> attacked an unarmed kid. But that report turned out to be false.
>>>
>>> How is it false? He was 17 and unarmed. Say what you want but Zimmerman
>>> stalked then shot and killed an unarmed 17-year-old boy who was merely
>>> walking around his own neighborhood. How could you not feel outrage?
>>>
>>> Why don't you drive around the streets of Moscow and follow all the
>>> 17-year-old kids you see. See what happens. There seems to be a kind of
>>> wreckless negligence on the part of Zimmerman, if nothing else.
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2013, at 6:27 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Just a few comments.
>>> From the first reports out it appeared that Zimmerman had unjustly
>>> attacked and unarmed kid. A picture was shown of a 12 year old Trayvon.
>>> This report turned out to be false. Ziommerman is not a monster or a saint.
>>> He was a mentor for black kids and he took a black girl to the prom. He
>>> obviously is not a racist. This was an unfortunate event where both have
>>> some responsibility. We are a nation of laws. On the bases of the evidence,
>>> the jury had no choice but to acquit. There have been many cases where
>>> whites has have killed blacks due to racial hatred and they should have
>>> been executed for it. Just two example are Emmett Till and the three Civil
>>> Rights workers. This case is entirely different.
>>> Roger
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>> To: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com, "Keely Emerine-Mix" <siyocreo at live.com>
>>> Date: 07/15/13 18:29
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>> A few points.
>>>
>>> On 07/15/2013 05:36 PM, Saundra Lund wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> No, Paul – *you* are missing the point. Make as many excuses about
>>> Zimmerman’s “recklessness” as you want, but that doesn’t change the *
>>> fact* that an innocent child who was doing *nothing wrong* is now dead
>>> because *he* (Trayvon) decided to exercise *his* right to defind *
>>> himself* against the deadly menace named George Zimmerman.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Make no mistake about it: Zimmerman was *stalking* this child the way
>>> a cat stalks a bird.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In Zimmerman's version of events, he was trying to keep tabs on him
>>> until the police got there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And, make no mistake about it: Trayvon Martin’s death was unjust. It
>>> is *absolutely unjust* when an innocent child doing not a thing in the
>>> world wrong winds up dead because a nut with an indisputable chip on his
>>> shoulder has a gun, and the injustice is further magnified when the killer
>>> escapes punishment.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> He was acquitted in a court of law, because there wasn't enough evidence
>>> to convict him. So what do you propose? Throw the rule of law aside for
>>> this one case where you're sure he's guilty somehow?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Trayvon had every right to “stand his ground” against a gun-carrying
>>> whacko who had already been told by LE *not* to follow the victim. Any
>>> man, woman, or child of *any* color with connected brain cells would
>>> feel threatened being stalked at night by an unknown dangerous creep like
>>> Zimmerman.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin had no way of knowing that Zimmerman had a gun, and didn't find
>>> out until after he was fighting him.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And, if you don’t Get why folks are rightly upset that a monster like
>>> Zimmerman gets a free criminal pass for killing an innocent child and why
>>> they want to organize a vigil – or millions of vigils -- in Trayvon
>>> Martin’s honor, then I don’t know what to say other than I pity you and
>>> your lack of humanity.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You have the nerve to call Zimmerman a "monster", and berate me for
>>> being subjective at the same time? And why do you always assume that if I
>>> disagree with you that I "lack humanity"? I know myself, and could give a
>>> crap if you know how much "humanity" I have.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, why don’t you just give it a rest? Your biased explanation of
>>> why you felt the verdict was just was fine & mildly interesting, even
>>> though you included a lot of subjective speculation supporting your bias I
>>> guess you hoped we’d miss (LOL – too bad for you, I didn’t miss your
>>> selective subjectivity).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm getting the idea that "bias" means "disagrees with Saundra", but I
>>> could be wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But, how about losing the arrogance that makes you think causes you
>>> don’t care about aren’t worthy, and how about losing the hubris that makes
>>> you think it appropriate to tell others where they should be directing
>>> their energies? If you want to organize or get out there & protest for
>>> your list of causes, have at it! No one is stopping you or suggesting you
>>> should be directing your focus elsewhere.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just trying to inject a little rationality into what appears to be yet
>>> another witch hunt. A pastime I find enjoyable sometimes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Why, then, you do feel the need to chide others who *do* care – and
>>> care deeply – about the completely preventable tragic death of an innocent
>>> child at the hands of a lunatic vigilante?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That death could have been prevented two ways. Zimmerman could have
>>> left him alone after he'd done his job, and Martin could have not fought
>>> him. It's one of those real-life thingys where it's never as black and
>>> white (no pun intended) as people would like to believe.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Saundra
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [
>>> mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>] *On
>>> Behalf Of* Paul Rumelhart
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2013 1:37 PM
>>> *To:* Keely Emerine-Mix; vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>> The problem as I see it, Keely, is that you want it to be an
>>> injustice. You want it to be about the innocent black kid that was gunned
>>> down by the armed white man for no reason other than he was black. Facts
>>> to the contrary be damned. It's a nice story, but just remember that
>>> that's what it is: a story.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
>>> *To:* "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, July 15, 2013 1:10 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom, be there Friday at 6, tell everyone you know, bring whatever
>>> microphone you can, and I'll see you there. I don't care how many people
>>> show up. I care very much that I myself not be silent in the face of such
>>> an injustice.
>>>
>>> Keely
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>>
>>> > From: vision2020-request at moscow.com
>>> > Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
>>> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:08 -0700
>>> >
>>> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
>>> > vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> > http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
>>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> > vision2020-request at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> > vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>>> >
>>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Today's Topics:
>>> >
>>> > 1. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Tom Hansen)
>>> > 2. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Scott Dredge)
>>> > 3. Re: Trayvon Martin rally? (Paul Rumelhart)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 1
>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:28:21 -0700
>>> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> <thansen at moscow.com>
>>> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
>>> > Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>, Jeanne McHale
>>> > <jeannemchale at hotmail.com> <jeannemchale at hotmail.com>, Fritz Knorr
>>> <fritzknorr at gmail.com> <fritzknorr at gmail.com>, LGBTQA
>>> > Office <lgbtoffice at uidaho.edu> <lgbtoffice at uidaho.edu>, "UI Human
>>> Rights, Access & Inclusion"
>>> > <csuarez at uidaho.edu> <csuarez at uidaho.edu>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
>>> > Message-ID: <21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826 at moscow.com><21BCEC70-D46E-4829-B922-24FA74223826 at moscow.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>> >
>>> > I am with you 1,000,000,000 . . . %, Keely.
>>> >
>>> > Please let me know what I, or Moscow Cares, can do to make this rally
>>> a reality, and consider it done.
>>> >
>>> > Come on, V-Peeps. GIVE A DAMN !
>>> >
>>> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>> >
>>> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>> > http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>>> >
>>> > Tom Hansen
>>> > Moscow, Idaho
>>> >
>>> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>>> > But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>>> > If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>> >
>>> > - John Lennon
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Jul 15, 2013, at 11:18 AM, Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com><siyocreo at live.com>wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Visionaires,
>>> > >
>>> > > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a
>>> rally or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
>>> family and to express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
>>> Friday at Friendship Square. Please either inform me of something
>>> previously planned, or pass this around. I'd be willing to speak and I know
>>> others of you would, too.
>>> > >
>>> > > This saddens and angers me beyond measure. We have to speak out.
>>> > >
>>> > > Love,
>>> > > Keely
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > > =======================================================
>>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 2
>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 12:31:27 -0600
>>> > From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>>> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>, viz
>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
>>> > Message-ID: <BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670 at phx.gbl><BLU175-W9CE824D6AE4D362F4DE8BE4670 at phx.gbl>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >
>>> > What would be the point? It was very controversial to bring George
>>> Zimmerman to trial in the first place. He was acquitted. Not even a hung
>>> jury. Outright full acquittal.
>>> >
>>> > I hate sounding like a broken record but for whatever reason I can't
>>> seem to get a basic point across that ***we do not have system of mob
>>> rule***. If we did, Zimmerman would have already been lynched without due
>>> process long ago. Would that be less of an outrage?
>>> >
>>> > -Scott
>>> >
>>> > From: siyocreo at live.com
>>> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:18:06 -0700
>>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Visionaires,
>>> >
>>> > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a rally
>>> or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
>>> family and to express outrage at the verdict. If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
>>> Friday at Friendship Square. Please either inform me of something
>>> previously planned, or pass this around. I'd be willing to speak and I know
>>> others of you would, too.
>>> >
>>> > This saddens and angers me beyond measure. We have to speak out.
>>> >
>>> > Love,
>>> > Keely
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > =======================================================
>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> > http://www.fsr.net
>>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com <Vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > =======================================================
>>> > -------------- next part --------------
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>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > Message: 3
>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 11:44:05 -0700 (PDT)
>>> > From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>>> > To: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>,
>>> "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
>>> > Message-ID:
>>> > <1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo at web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com><1373913845.39333.YahooMailNeo at web163602.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>> >
>>> > Keely,
>>> >
>>> > Did you look at the evidence?? I don't see how the jury could have
>>> done any differently.? Zimmerman was using the "self-defense" defense, and
>>> there was enough evidence of that to provide reasonable doubt (his
>>> injuries, the witness who saw the guy in the white sweater beating on the
>>> guy in the red sweater, the inability to determine who was shouting for
>>> help).? According to Zimmerman, Martin saw his weapon and they fought for
>>> it and Zimmerman ended up shooting him in the chest.? Since Martin isn't
>>> around to give his side of events (conveniently, I know) and since there is
>>> no evidence to disprove this, they pretty much had to acquit.? In my
>>> opinion, of course.? To prove second degree murder, they would have to
>>> disprove the self-defense defense and show that he was unhinged enough to
>>> take this opportunity to go kill Martin.? I haven't seen any evidence of
>>> that, either.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The media has worked hard to make this about race, but there was no
>>> indication I saw that Zimmerman was racially motivated.? If anything,
>>> Martin was the one framing everything by race.? NBC had to resort to
>>> editing the 9-1-1 tape to make it look like it was racially motivated, but
>>> the real 9-1-1 tape doesn't appear to show this (at least what I've heard
>>> of it).?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > If you want to get out there and protest something, I recommend
>>> protesting what NBC did when editing the 9-1-1 tape in an attempt to ignite
>>> racial tensions.? Or protest what the NSA has been doing.? Or protest the
>>> drone strikes or the secret courts or the secret reasoning for gathering
>>> information on everyone that can't be revealed.? Or protest how the US is
>>> going after Snowden so hard instead of cleaning house.?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Don't be distracted by this media circus.
>>> >
>>> > Paul
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________
>>> > From: Keely Emerine-Mix <siyocreo at live.com> <siyocreo at live.com>
>>> > To: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>> > Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 11:18 AM
>>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Trayvon Martin rally?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Visionaires,
>>> >
>>> > I've been out of town for two weeks so I don't know if there's a rally
>>> or anything scheduled on the Palouse in support of the Trayvon Martin
>>> family and to express outrage at the verdict.? If not, I'd suggest 6 p.m.
>>> Friday at Friendship Square.? Please either inform me of something
>>> previously planned, or pass this around.? I'd be willing to speak and I
>>> know others of you would, too.
>>> >
>>> > This saddens and angers me beyond measure.? We have to speak out.
>>> >
>>> > Love,
>>> > Keely
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > www.keely-prevailingwinds.com
>>> >
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>>> > End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 85, Issue 95
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
>
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