[Vision2020] Boy Scouts At It Again

Tue Jul 16 17:27:55 PDT 2013

I am, as eve,r flattered to be mistaken for Saundra.  Nobody ever had a
smarter, more tactful, trustworthy, have-my-back kind of pal than Saundra
Lund.  So, thanks for the ever so slight mix - up.

Rose

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Darrell Keim
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 1:58 PM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Boy Scouts At It Again

Whoops, apologies to Rose and Saundra!  

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:49 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
wrote:

Hi Again Darrell, and I do appreciate you taking your time to share your
thoughts and speculations from "you as a person."

I hope you calling me "Rose" was just a typo, but to avoid tarring Rose with
a brush that's rightly mine, I just want to make sure folks know it was me -
Saundra - who brought up this topic.

Oh, how I wish you were part of the group that went into planning the
National Jamboree!  If you are correct about the risk of being sued as a
motivation behind banning obese boy and adult Scouts and leaders from the
Jamboree, I think your suggestions might have been helpful in reaching a
decision that wasn't discriminatory.

As it stands, though, I find the decision heartbreaking & inexcusable.  As
anyone who has spent any time trying to educate themselves about our
nation's food crisis knows, the factors leading to obesity are far more than
just some lack of "motivation."  I do understand that the kids & adults were
given significant advance notice of the new restrictions, so if motivation
was enough to fix the obesity crisis, perhaps that would be one thing.  But,
that's simply not the case, and the result is that the BSA has decided to -
once again - exclude valuable kids and adults.

Let's not forget, too, that there is no absolute correlation between BMI an
individual's physical fitness level!  The BSA's decision to focus on that -
rather than on actual physical fitness - is beyond ignorant at best and
mean-spirited at worse, it seems to me.  This leaves yet another really bad
taste in my mouth with respect to BSA.

Finally - and these are genuine questions - do you know if differently abled
kids with physical challenges also banned from this Jamboree because the
location selected is more physically challenging?  Or, have they already
been excluded from participating in previous Jamborees?  

Perhaps because I'm older than you, I've had less . . . pleasant BSA
experiences with respect to inclusion, and they are the kind of things that
have stuck with me for nearly half a century.

My brother is older than I, and since my mom was a "den mother," my exposure
to Cub Scouts/Boy Scouts began very early in my life.  The boys had such a
blast, and I wanted to be a member, too.  My mom explained that first, I was
too, young, but second, that when I was old enough, I could be a Bluebird,
which was for girls.  Even at that early age, it seemed unfair that I
couldn't stick with the big brother I worshipped, but there you have it, and
I can't say that I gave it much further thought as a 3- or 4-year old.  Some
of my fondest childhood memories are of the Pinewood Derbies  J  Once I was
old enough, I became a Bluebird & never looked back - I've still got all my
beads  J

I don't know when the Explorer program that allows adolescent girls started,
but I'm pretty sure it wasn't around back in the Dark Ages of my childhood
J  At that time, Boy Scouts and Camp Fire (I don't know about GSA, but I
suspect it was the same) were definitely gender specific.

The first serious BSA dark cloud came when I was in first grade, IIRC.  A
new friend of my brother's, who happened to be black, from our elementary
school wanted to join my brother's troop.  Say what you want about how BSA
hates to exclude kids, but boys of color were absolutely excluded from the
BSA troops where I grew up, while I was a Bluebird with girls of color.
I'll spare you the details of the vitriol I heard at some big meeting that
was more than just my brother's den members parents before my mother whisked
me out, but it wasn't pretty and was my introduction to the racism enshrined
in BSA at the time (mid- to late 1960s and early 1970s) where I lived (Bible
Belt OKC & later the Dallas metropolitan area).  My mom quit being a den
mother over the discrimination and exclusion of boys of color & wanted to
yank my brother from Scouts.  My father disagreed, so he decided the
decision was one for my brother (who was probably 8 or 9 at the time - great
parenting . . . NOT) to make.  My brother absolutely agonized over the
decision.  He decided to continue with Scouting, a decision he to this day
beats himself up about.

To be fair, I have no idea of what any "official" BSA policy of racial
discrimination was at the time, but regardless of any official policy, BSA
racism & exclusion were rampant where I lived in two different states.  I
suppose it would be fair to say that the BSA is responsible to my personal
awareness of institutional racism.  Even as a young child, the . . .
injustice was perfectly clear to me.

Flash forward a few years to when we lived in a relatively conservative and
staunchly Catholic part of the Bay Area.  That time, it was one of my pals
who was excluded from BSA.  Why?  Because his parents were atheists.  As an
11-year-old boy, Bobby himself wasn't sure what he believed with respect to
God, but he was ethical enough - even as a kid - to not feel comfortable
taking an oath to a God he wasn't sure existed.

In fairness, as a kid, I wasn't aware of the link between Boy Scouts and
churches, but having had a lot of exposure to Scouts, it was beyond stupid
to me that a kid was punished and excluded for being honest.  I'm sure
that's an excellent lesson he learned about honesty, yes?

So, that's BSA exclusion experience #3, although #1 (no girls allowed)
wasn't particularly traumatic.  I suspect, though, it played a role in my
motivation of working for gender equality as a human right  J

Then, let's flash forward quite a few years to Idaho - I think we all know
that brings us to sexual orientation discrimination.  I'm not going to
mention any names because the adults responsible still live here.
Personally, I think they should have the guts to publically apologize for
the bigoted way some of them have treated this community's kids, but I
imagine h*ll will freeze over before they have that kind of integrity.

Please let me take this opportunity to thank you for your advocacy within
the local Scouting for your advocacy of our gay youth.

And, please accept my gratitude for your contributions to the BSA.  As I
hope this email makes clear, my personal BSA experiences have been a real
mixed bag.  On the one hand, some of my best childhood memories really are
of Cub Scouting things like attending the meetings as a tiny girl when my
mom was a den mom and going to the Pinewood Derbies (and watching my brother
& father make those magical cars) especially but also to other Scout family
activities.

OTOH, some of the most heartbreaking aspects of my childhood result from the
BSA excluding really wonderful kids because of their skin color, religion,
or sexual orientation.

And, I really hate to see the BSA step in it yet again by replacing one
banned group of kids with another, only this time they're targeting and
excluding kids who are already Scouts rather than preventing those kids from
becoming Scouts.

Maybe that's next.

After all, that's a newer "acceptable" form of discrimination in American
society as a whole, isn't it?

Saundra

Moscow, ID

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.

~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

From: keim152 at gmail.com [mailto:keim152 at gmail.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Keim
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:13 AM
To: Saundra Lund
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: Boy Scouts At It Again

Sure, Rose, I can give a few thoughts.  I am still involved in the BSA as a
local district volunteer.  But, in no way should my thoughts be construed as
anything but my own speculations.  

My comments are interspersed below.

-------------------------------------------

It's not too often that I find myself speechless, but the BSA & its

supporters have accomplished it by deciding to exclude obese adults and

Scouts from the important Jamboree:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/15/19488312-obese-boy-scouts-left-ou

t-of-national-gathering?lite

I don't usually pay much attention to the National Jamboree.  I prefer to
focus my efforts locally, where I feel I can best make a difference.  With
that said, I know it is a great experience.  

I read the linked article.  It appears they chose a physically challenging
location for their camp, and gave lots of notice to prospective participants
that they need to get in shape if they wish to attend. Physical fitness is a
major goal of the BSA, a goal they have recently pledged to work harder on.
I like this, and feel that providing boys with a goal to work towards is an
excellent motivator.  I would've liked to see them have some activities in
less physically challenging areas of the camp.  I'd like boys off all levels
to be able to attend, with the motivator being seeing the more fun
activities the physically fit boys can do in addition to the regular
activities.

It also appears they are getting health info of those planning to attend,
and not permitting people over a certain BMI.  I do not like this, but I
suspect I know where it is coming from:  Controlling risk.  The BSA is
self-insured.  They want to make certain no one dies or is seriously injured
because they over-estimated their physical abilities.  Put simply:  They
don't want to get sued.  I would rather they had explained the risks
clearly, and required waivers from people over a certain BMI.  People can
make their own choices.

Granted, since I'm female, I never participated in the BSA (I went the

Bluebird and Camp Fire route), but my brother did, and attending Jamboree

was one of the highlights of his life.

Actually, as a female you could've participated in their Exploring program
for adolescents.

Looking at the photos of him in those years, it's possible he would have

been excluded during those chunky pre-puberty years.  And, he'd have missed

the opportunity to return in better shape and more enthusiastic about being

physically active.

I guess there's just something about the BSA that deep down *wants* to have

groups to exclude.

Speaking as a former professional, I can tell you the BSA HATES to exclude
kids.  Most volunteers and professionals passionately believe that every kid
should benefit from the Scout program.  My success as a professional was
dependent on my ability to grow the local program.  My sworn duty was to
give every kid in the area a chance to participate as I grew the local BSA
program.  The more kids in the program, the stronger the program is. I did
not like that there was a population of local kids that I could not reach.
But, the kids must be willing to follow the Scout Oath and Law.  

As recent BSA policy changes have shown, interpretation of that law evolves
very slowly. Our council held a series of Fireside Chats in the lead-up to
the recent policy change.  I went to the Lewiston chat.  It was led by the
Council executive and top two council volunteers.  Purpose was to gauge
local feelings about the proposed change.  There were about 30 people
present.  Opinion in that room was strongly against changing the policy(At
that time the proposal was a total lift on the ban, not the eventual
compromise proposal that passed).  I was THE ONLY PERSON to speak favorably
of lifting the ban.  And the furthest I went was to ask the following
questions "Why does the BSA put itself in the position of dictating theology
to churches?  Why don't we let the churches pick their own Scout leaders, as
they did before the BSA instituted a no homosexuals rule in the nineties?"

  First, it was blacks, then it was gays . . . and now

it's the obese.  Oh, and aren't atheists still banned?

Todays BSA is a reflection of the organizations that Charter its troops.
That is mostly conservative churches (LDS, Methodist, Catholic and Lutheran
are some of their largest charter partners).  Charter Organizations approve
all major policies.  The BSA will change as the desires of these
organizations change.  Since we are talking about churches, I suspect those
changes will be very slow.  Societal views changed on racism, and are
changing on homosexuality.  As are the BSA policies about them.  I suspect
the BSA will always ban atheists, due to their Charter Organization
structure.

But, honestly, I guess I shouldn't be surprised this is coming from an

organization with long history of justifying discrimination.

Darrell, I seem to recall you've devoted a part of your life to BSA (they

are/were lucky to have you!), and I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts

about this, if you care to share.

Saundra

Moscow, ID

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