[Vision2020] Another hate group?

lfalen lfalen at turbonet.com
Mon Jan 21 10:29:56 PST 2013


Joe Mccarthy was right over 90% of the time. He did bring to light a lot of communist activity. The daring of liberals( Bobby Kennedy) worked with him as a council on the HUAC.  But just like Dees and Potok he was some times wrong. I sitll say that before you believe what Potok or Dees say, check it out with Alan Dershowitz.
Roger




>-----Original Message-----
>Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>Date: 01/21/13 01:22:02
>
>Rush Limbaugh apologized!  That was no apology, "I sincerely apologize for 
>using those words."  Cripes.  And he missed her point entirely when he went 
>on to justify himself.  I'm guessing I did see those "fact" sheets to which 
>you refer, and also the divorce piece which I quit reading after questioning 
>its legitimacy, as well.  Even the fellow who posted it said he couldn't 
>attest to its legitimacy.  Then there was this really great white supremacy 
>web site that had a lot of stuff.  Sorry, I saw nothing I would consider 
>legitimate.  I read somewhere in all this that Glen Beck had some info...so 
>I repeat.....
>And when did Joe McCarthy ever do any good?
>
>Sue
>
>-----Original Message----- 
>From: lfalen
>Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:31 PM
>To: Sue Hovey ; Joe Campbell
>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; rhayes at frontier.com
>Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>
>Try looking for Morris Dees devorce or Morris Dees fact sheet. You may 
>discount this sources if you like also. Rush was out of line on Sandra Fluke 
>and he apoligized for it.  I am not saying Dees did not do some good things, 
>only that like Joe McCarthy he has gone overboard.
>Roger
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Subject: Re: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>>To: "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>, lfalen 
>><lfalen at turbonet.com>
>>Date: 01/20/13 05:58:34
>>
>>Roger,
>>
>>I looked and can't find anything that records a charge against Dees for
>>either incest or child abuse.  There's a lot of extremist web talking about
>>the subject of Dees which hammers at him for his ties to Jews, and the 
>>other
>>behavior, but I can't find anything really convincing.  I would assume hate
>>groups would libel and slander him, but where are the believable sources? 
>>I
>>didn't find any, and did find a statement the SPLC continues to battle 
>>those
>>groups for their words against him:  liar, public sex offender, abuser,
>>incestuous, arrogant, etc.  I only worked with Dees in groups, so I can't
>>say we have ever had any personal conversations, but I have never even 
>>found
>>him to be arrogant, and certainly nothing I ever saw of him would lead me 
>>to
>>believe any of the other accusations.
>>
>>If for no other reason, Idaho citizens owe him and the SPLC a great debt 
>>for
>>finally getting Richard Butler and the Aryan Nations.
>>
>>I'm thinking the sources tying  Dees is to child abuse are as legitimate as
>>Limbaugh tying  Sandra Fluke is to prostitution...
>>
>>Sue H
>>
>>-----Original Message----- 
>>From: lfalen
>>Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 11:09 AM
>>To: Sue Hovey ; Joe Campbell
>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; rhayes at frontier.com
>>Subject: Re[2]: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>
>>The SPLC has done some good work in regard to groups like the KKK. Morris
>>Dees has gone overboard in in labeling groups like the League of the South
>>as a hate group. They have members from all races.  As to his character, he
>>has been charges with incest and child abuse. Mark Potok has lableled most
>>patriot groups as hate groups, Rush Limbaugh in particular. Note I am not a
>>big fan of Rush's . On the aniversary of the Spanish Civil War he gave a
>>glowing report on the Abraham Lincoln Brigade with out mention ing that it
>>was a communist front group.
>>Again the SPLC has done some good, but these two go overboard. For those
>>that condemn Joe McCarthy for going overboard, they should do the same for
>>these two.
>>Roger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>>From: &quot;Sue Hovey&quot; <suehovey at moscow.com>
>>>To: &quot;Joe Campbell&quot; <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>, lfalen
>>><lfalen at turbonet.com>
>>>Date: 01/17/13 08:56:34
>>>
>>>An example of blasting everyone on the right?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message----- 
>>>From: lfalen
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:15 AM
>>>To: Joe Campbell
>>>Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; rhayes at frontier.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>>
>>>The Southern Poverty Law center is a mixed bag. They do do some good work.
>>>Mark Potok and Morris Dees tend to take the shot gun approch and blast
>>>every
>>>one on the right. Alan Dershowitz is much more careful.
>>>Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>>From: &amp;quot;Joe Campbell&amp;quot;
>>>To: lfalen
>>>Date: 01/16/13 20:22:48
>>>
>>>What is wrong with the Southern Poverty Law Center? Didn't they chase away
>>>the Neo-Nazis up north? Joe
>>>
>>>On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
>>>I would also like to thank Saundra for her research. I would hope that 
>>>this
>>>group never gets off the ground, we do not need them in this area. However
>>>any group should have  the right to build and live in any voluntary manner
>>>the chose. I would never want to live in one, but I would also support the
>>>right of the Hutterites to build a commune here. As for the Sounthern
>>>Poverty Law Center, I have a fair amount of respect for Alan Dershowitz,
>>>not
>>>so much for Mark Potok,.
>>>Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
>>>From: rhayes at frontier.com
>>>To: &amp;quot;Saundra Lund&amp;quot;
>>>Date: 01/16/13 19:43:40
>>>
>>>Very good research &amp;quot;Saundra.Below is the quote and below that is 
>>>the
>>>link
>>>you asked for.While they don't yet seem to espouse the typical hate
>>>rhetoric, I don't think they will be fun neighbors if the  dubious plan
>>>goes
>>>forward. Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center,
>>>said he doubts the group is any bigger than one or two individuals looking
>>>to win a following. He called it nothing more than an idle 
>>>fantasy.&amp;quot;We
>>>don't
>>>know who's behind it, but the claim that there are several hundred people
>>>involved is patently ludicrous,&amp;quot; Potok said. &amp;quot;We're 
>>>likely
>>>talking about a
>>>man, a dog and his computer envisioning this whole imaginary city. We 
>>>don't
>>>take it that seriously.&amp;quot;
>>>
>>>Read more:
>>>http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/patriot-group-looks-to-create-armed-community-in-idaho-montana/article_3f4368e3-407c-590e-9263-594456826987.html#ixzz2IAHyZvCs
>>>  From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
>>>To: 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; keim153 at gmail.com
>>>Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
>>>Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:52 AM
>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>>>
>>>At the risk of Paul again confusing discussion with hate . . . Roger
>>>(Falen)
>>>wrote:&amp;quot;I do not know anything about this group, but how does 
>>>anyone
>>>know
>>>that they are a hate group?  A little bit wako probably, but not
>>>necessarily
>>>a hate group.&amp;quot;  I think the question is a good one, and I don't 
>>>think
>>>we
>>>know the answer to it.  After all, hate groups rarely (if ever) consider
>>>themselves to be hate groups, you know J  And, what they say for public
>>>consumption is often quite different than what they say amongst the inner
>>>circle.  To back up a bit, I can't find anything where the SPLC has looked
>>>at the Citadel and its separate but integral III Arms - Roger (Hayes), can
>>>you provide a link?  The group clearly considers itself to be part of the
>>>&amp;quot;Patriot&amp;quot; movement &amp;amp; reveres John Wesley, Rawls 
>>>(yawn, one of
>>>those highly
>>>paid anti-government doomsday/prepper/survivalist types) and his
>>>&amp;quot;American Redoubt.&amp;quot;  Rawls, however, has recently 
>>>disavowed any
>>>connection
>>>to III Citadel, which I found hilarious, while failing to distance himself
>>>from the weapons manufacture of III Arms Company, which is how this group
>>>expects to fund the III Citadel.  They've supposedly purchased 20 acres 
>>>(so
>>>far) in the St. Maries area &amp;amp; plan on starting to build the III 
>>>Arms
>>>factory
>>>(the first phase) there in early-to-mid year.  At this point, I think 
>>>their
>>>weapons are still being custom-manufactured in WV . . . if they are
>>>actually
>>>being made at all. And, in my book, the interesting thing about the III
>>>Citadel is the III Arms Company - lots of right-wing extremists have
>>>attempted to establish insular communities, but they typically fail, is
>>>seems to me, because of the finances (as well as in-fighting, not to
>>>mention
>>>not being able to play well with others, something the III Citadel/III 
>>>Arms
>>>Company hasn't avoided).  III Arms Company is an attempt (or perhaps a
>>>scam)
>>>to provide funding to make the III Citadel a reality (or a more profitable
>>>scam). The whole thing makes me think of a bunch of silly role-playing
>>>teenagers enamored with their interpretation of the Second Amendment 
>>>trying
>>>to form a doomsday utopia as an excuse for their hoarding tendencies 
>>>&amp;amp;
>>>expensive deadly toys. However, I find the psychology very interesting! 
>>>In
>>>tough economic times, it's fascinating to me that anyone would turn over
>>>$208 to &amp;quot;apply&amp;quot; to lease a &amp;quot;home&amp;quot; in a 
>>>walled community
>>>that probably won't
>>>exist anytime soon.  They estimate that the cost of that silly wall alone
>>>will cost in the neighborhood of $25 million.  An examination of the 
>>>stated
>>>goals of the III Citadel community and associated costs aren't realistic,
>>>financially or otherwise.  Reading the blogs of those involved shows -at
>>>best - a stunning ignorance of basics like sustainability, economics, 
>>>legal
>>>principles, weather in Benewah County, growing seasons, roads,
>>>accessibility, etc.  But . . . it gets even better  J  III Arms claims 
>>>that
>>>it's a non-profit!  I kid you not  J
>>>http://iiiarms.blogspot.com/2012/11/black-rifle-friday.html &amp;quot;And
>>>remember,
>>>III Arms is not a for-profit company. All proceeds go to the Citadel
>>>Project, to help build a bastion of Liberty for us all.&amp;quot; 
>>>ROTFLOF!!!
>>>But,
>>>wait:  it gets even better  J  Has anyone besides me wondered why the III
>>>Citadel is collecting money but doesn't have a spokesperson?  Curious,
>>>don't
>>>you think?  Well, perhaps it's because the person behind the 
>>>&amp;quot;firearms
>>>arms
>>>required&amp;quot; III Citadel and initially behind III Arms Co. is a 
>>>federally
>>>convicted felon who apparently isn't even able to legally own a firearm  J
>>>I kid you not!  I've been trying
>>>to track down rumors &amp;amp; facts for a couple of weeks now since Tom 
>>>first
>>>posted, and the earliest references I've been able to find originated with
>>>a
>>>man apparently named Christian or Chris Kerodin, which may or may not be
>>>his
>>>real name since he's a dude with a lot of apparent aliases, scams, and
>>>blogs.  But, in reading his blogs, he definitely seems to be this
>>>guy:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/26/20040326-124129-2670r/print/An
>>>Alexandria, Va., man was sentenced yesterday in federal court to 30 months
>>>in prison and fined $6,000 after he pleaded guilty in January to charges 
>>>of
>>>extortion and possessing an unregistered short-barreled rifle.U.S. 
>>>Attorney
>>>Paul J. McNulty in Alexandria said Christian Kerodin, 36, was sentenced by
>>>U.S. District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee, who also ordered that the prison 
>>>term
>>>be followed by three years of supervised release.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin
>>>published a report on the Internet in May titled &amp;quot;Terrorist 
>>>Target
>>>List:
>>>American Retailers &amp;amp; Restaurants,&amp;quot; which said shopping 
>>>venues were
>>>likely to
>>>be prime targets for terrorist attacks and billed himself as a security
>>>expert.A month later, he said, Kerodin contacted officials at the Fashion
>>>Centre at Pentagon City, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria, saying that a
>>>new edition of his Internet report was due shortly and that if they
>>>contracted with him for security assessments, he would not include their
>>>names in the new report as needing security upgrades.The Fashion Centre is
>>>owned by the Simon Property Group, and Landmark and Tysons Galleria are
>>>owned by General Growth Properties Inc.Mr. McNulty said mall officials
>>>asked
>>>Kerodin to provide the names of other clients for references or to supply
>>>credentials for persons who worked for his company. He refused, saying he
>>>did not need
>>>experience to be an expert in counterterrorism. None of the malls hired
>>>him.In July, Kerodin published the report, which criticized several area
>>>shopping malls for being vulnerable to terrorist attacks, specifically
>>>criticizing the Fashion Centre, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria. Mr.
>>>McNulty said Kerodin recontacted officials at Simon and General Growth by
>>>letter and threatened to release similarly negative reports on 14 other
>>>properties that the companies owned.An agent from the Department of
>>>Homeland
>>>Security posing as a mall executive then contacted Kerodin, telling him 
>>>the
>>>malls had hired another security company and asking that they not be
>>>included in additional reports. The agent also offered Kerodin $40,000 to
>>>be
>>>left out of any new reports.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin rejected the offer 
>>>and
>>>demanded $122,500. He then was arrested.&amp;quot;This defendant took 
>>>advantage
>>>of
>>>the heightened
>>>concern we all have to protect ourselves from terrorism. It is
>>>reprehensible
>>>that someone would exploit that concern for personal gain,&amp;quot; Mr.
>>>McNulty
>>>said.Huh.  I guess their definition of &amp;quot;law-abiding&amp;quot; is 
>>>quite a
>>>bit
>>>different than is mine.  And, I feel soooo much better (not!) that it's 
>>>his
>>>wife Holly, rather than convicted felon Christian Kerodin himself, who is
>>>listed with the Idaho Secretary of State as a &amp;quot;member or 
>>>manager&amp;quot;
>>>of III
>>>Arms Company, LLC:http://www.accessidaho.org/public/sos/corp/W116214.html 
>>>I
>>>highly recommend checking out (one of) Kerodin's blogs.  Here's a
>>>sample:http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2013/01/in-absence-of-orders-go-find-something.html
>>>In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.I borrowed 
>>>the
>>>title from WRSA.
>>>
>>>I think you will see this phrase again on this blog.
>>>
>>>If we are Citizen Soldiers, a Leaderless entity, or small groups of
>>>Patriots
>>>who have installed a command structure among themselves, but otherwise
>>>answer to no central command, then it is incumbant upon each of us to
>>>shoulder our portion of the burden and act independantly.
>>>
>>>In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.
>>>
>>>You'll know when. You already know who. You should know where they are in
>>>your AO.
>>>
>>>You know what is Evil.
>>>
>>>You know what it is going to take to backfist the Tyrants out of our lives
>>>for the next few generations. Fight to the knife, and knife to the hilt...
>>>
>>>Standing Orders: In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill
>>>it.
>>>
>>>Kerodin
>>>III Wow - that's just the kind of dude I want as an Idahoan!!!  Is that,
>>>and
>>>a lot of other vitriol he's written, &amp;quot;hate&amp;quot;? Rather than 
>>>recount
>>>a lot of
>>>details, an article providing lots of interesting background was just
>>>published:http://politicker.com/2013/01/meet-the-men-who-want-to-build-an-armed-castle-commune-for-patriots/James
>>>L. Miller is many things, a motorcycle enthusiast, accused online scammer,
>>>doomsday prepper, gunmaker and cat lover. Christian Kerodin also wears a
>>>number of hats; he is an air conditioning repairman, blogger, author,
>>>self-styled security consultant and convicted extortionist. Both men also
>>>seem to be the masterminds behind a plan to build a massive, armed
>>>survivalist compound in Idaho that has been making national
>>>headlines.According to the website of the Citadel, it will be a
>>>&amp;quot;community
>>>of 3,500 - 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who voluntarily
>>>choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of
>>>Rightful Liberty&amp;quot; and is being planned for Northern Idaho. Among 
>>>other
>>>things, the designs for the Citadel include a &amp;quot;perimeter 
>>>defense&amp;quot;
>>>with
>>>castle-style fortified walls and towers, an on-site gun factory, hotels,
>>>schools, a &amp;quot;firearms museum,&amp;quot; a &amp;quot;town 
>>>militia,&amp;quot; jail
>>>and farmer's market. As
>>>of now, the community is planned for Benewah County in Northern Idaho.
>>>Prospective residents of the Citadel are asked to submit to an application
>>>process that includes agreeing to participate in the militia and pass
>>>periodic proficiency tests with multiple types of 
>>>firearms.&amp;quot;Marxists,
>>>Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that
>>>life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and
>>>preferred lifestyles,&amp;quot; the website says.Though the Citadel 
>>>website
>>>claims
>>>the group has no &amp;quot;leader&amp;quot; and is
>>>the work of &amp;quot;scores of Liberty-loving individuals,&amp;quot; it 
>>>appears
>>>Mr. Miller
>>>and Mr. Kerodin are two of the main forces behind the project. The roman
>>>numeral in the community's name seems to be derived from &amp;quot;III 
>>>Percent
>>>Patriots,&amp;quot; a blog operated by Mr. Kerodin where the early 
>>>discussions
>>>were
>>>held planning the Citadel's design and potential locations. An entry on 
>>>Mr.
>>>Kerodin's personal website describes the meaning of the term &amp;quot;III
>>>Percent
>>>Patriots.&amp;quot;&amp;quot;Historians consider that about 3 percent of 
>>>Americans
>>>took arms
>>>and challenged the King during the Revolution. 3 percent. III Percent.
>>>Threepers. Patriots. We exist today,&amp;quot; Mr. Kerodin wrote. 
>>>&amp;quot;We are
>>>that
>>>percentage of Americans who have the tools and mettle of the Militiaman 
>>>who
>>>stand and have drawn a hard line for the Hard Right of the political
>>>spectrum.&amp;quot;Along with his political activities, Mr. Kerodin has 
>>>also
>>>worked
>>>as a repairman for
>>>heating and air conditioning systems. In 2002, Mr. Kerodin started a
>>>security consultancy. The following year, he printed an eight-page 
>>>analysis
>>>of terrorism weaknesses at shopping malls in the Washington D.C. area.
>>>According to reports from the time, he subsequently contacted mall
>>>operators
>>>in the area and told them they would be included in other similar analyses
>>>if they did not hire him to conduct security assessments. A concerned
>>>company contacted the Secret Service who had an undercover agent contact
>>>Mr.
>>>Kerodin who allegedly agreed to keep the business out of his reports after
>>>accepting a $120,000 check. He was arrested and indicted for an extortion
>>>charge to which he plead guilty. Mr. Kerodin was sentenced to 30 months in
>>>prison for the crime and an associated firearms charge. As a federal 
>>>felon,
>>>Mr. Kerodin cannot own a weapon, but on his website, he says he is
>>>&amp;quot;exploring&amp;quot; legal
>>>avenues to &amp;quot;recover&amp;quot; his &amp;quot;firearms 
>>>rights.&amp;quot;In one of
>>>the Citadel planning
>>>posts on Mr. Kerodin's blogs, a commenter using an online alias linked to
>>>Mr. Miller, &amp;quot;Millerized,&amp;quot; offers to bring his 
>>>&amp;quot;firearm
>>>smithing&amp;quot; skills to
>>>the community. &amp;quot;Millerized,&amp;quot; is also one of the authors 
>>>of the
>>>Citadel blog.
>>>In addition to being his online alias, &amp;quot;Millerized&amp;quot; was 
>>>also the
>>>name of a
>>>company previously by Mr. Miller that originally made motorcycle parts.
>>>Last
>>>October, Millerized began doing business as &amp;quot;III Arms.&amp;quot; 
>>>The III
>>>Arms website
>>>describes it as a firearms company &amp;quot;dedicated to building 
>>>first-class
>>>fighting arms for the defense of Jefferson's Rightful Liberty.&amp;quot; 
>>>III
>>>Arms
>>>will have a factory inside the Citadel's walls that is planned to be the
>>>prime source of revenue and employment for the project's early residents.
>>>Mr. Miller is identified on LinkedIn as the &amp;quot;president&amp;quot; 
>>>of III
>>>Arms.In
>>>addition
>>>to Mr. Miller's business activities, he has an extensive digital trail 
>>>that
>>>includes &amp;quot;Millerized's&amp;quot; participation in sites for 
>>>self-described
>>>doomsday
>>>&amp;quot;preppers&amp;quot; and survivalists. On one of these forums, 
>>>Millerized
>>>describes
>>>work done in his house where he has multiple cats. A web page tied to Mr.
>>>Miller's name and address is also identified as having participated in
>>>so-called &amp;quot;phishing&amp;quot; scams on a site dedicated to 
>>>identifying
>>>these
>>>fraudulent attempts to obtain personal information.As of this writing,
>>>neither Mr. Miller or Mr. Kerodin have responded to multiple requests for
>>>comment on this story. However, Mr. Miller seems to be enjoying the
>>>attention the Citadel has recently received. A Facebook page that seems to
>>>belong to Mr. Miller features pictures of customized military fatigues 
>>>with
>>>the III Arms logo and the words &amp;quot;Millerized&amp;quot; and
>>>&amp;quot;Patriot.&amp;quot; It also includes
>>>a picture of one of
>>>the Citadel's more prominent media mentions, a headline about the 
>>>community
>>>on the Drudge Report accompanied by the following caption from Mr.
>>>Miller:&amp;quot;We are now huge.&amp;quot;For those interested in 
>>>learning more,
>>>remember
>>>Google is your friend, but be prepared to shower frequently. What's that
>>>saying?  Oh, yeah, &amp;quot;A fool and his money are soon 
>>>parted.&amp;quot;
>>>Personally, I
>>>prefer to take the &amp;quot;scam&amp;quot; perspective because the 
>>>alternative is
>>>enough to
>>>chill the bones of any person with connected brain cells.  Saundra
>>>LundMoscow, ID To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards 
>>>out
>>>of men.~ Abraham Lincoln   From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>>>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
>>>Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:50 PM
>>>To: keim153 at gmail.com
>>>Cc: vision 2020; rhayes at frontier.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group  Darrell,
>>>
>>>I agree, though I have to add that someone posted about them last month; I
>>>think it was Tom.
>>>
>>>SunilDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:28:26 -0800
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>>>From: keim153 at gmail.com
>>>To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>>>
>>>
>>>I am the original poster of this topic.  I never called it a hate group. 
>>>I
>>>called them survivalists.  I think Roger Hayes changed the subject to a
>>>hate
>>>tagline.  What say you, Roger?On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Sunil
>>>Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:I'm with Roger on this.
>>>Maybe
>>>they're complete nut jobs, but I don't know that they're a hate group.
>>>
>>>What is the evidence behind that claim?
>>>
>>>SunilDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:36:50 +0100
>>>To: thansen at moscow.com; keim153 at gmail.com
>>>From: lfalen at turbonet.com
>>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate groupI do not know anything about
>>>this group, but how does anyone know that they are a hate group?  A little
>>>bit wako probably, but not necessarily a hate group.Roger
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>>>From: &amp;quot;Tom Hansen&amp;quot;
>>>To: &amp;quot;Darrell Keim&amp;quot;
>>>Date: 01/13/13 23:12:16How's this for 
>>>&amp;quot;freedom&amp;quot;&amp;quot;  My father
>>>was a POW in
>>>Stalag Luft IIIA during the last year and a half of WW2.  I am convinced
>>>that he experienced less isolation than the freedom-loving residents of 
>>>the
>>>Citadel.Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . . &amp;quot;Moscow
>>>Cares&amp;quot;http://www.moscowcares.com/  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>>>&amp;quot;There's room at
>>>the top they are telling you still    But first you must learn how to 
>>>smile
>>>as you kill
>>>If you want to be like the folks on the hill.&amp;quot;    - John Lennon
>>>On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>Goodie.  So it will be like Bo Gritz &amp;quot;Almost Heaven&amp;quot; 
>>>near Kamiah.
>>>Wonderful.On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM, rhayes at frontier.com
>>><rhayes at frontier.com> wrote: The Southern Poverty Law Center has dismissed
>>>this &amp;quot;group&amp;quot; as a couple of guys with a computer who are 
>>>trying
>>>to drum up a
>>>following and bilk those who take the bait of cash.
>>>
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