[Vision2020] Another hate group?
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Wed Jan 16 23:57:07 PST 2013
An example of blasting everyone on the right?
-----Original Message-----
From: lfalen
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 10:15 AM
To: Joe Campbell
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com ; rhayes at frontier.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
The Southern Poverty Law center is a mixed bag. They do do some good work.
Mark Potok and Morris Dees tend to take the shot gun approch and blast every
one on the right. Alan Dershowitz is much more careful.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
From: "Joe Campbell"
To: lfalen
Date: 01/16/13 20:22:48
What is wrong with the Southern Poverty Law Center? Didn't they chase away
the Neo-Nazis up north? Joe
On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
I would also like to thank Saundra for her research. I would hope that this
group never gets off the ground, we do not need them in this area. However
any group should have the right to build and live in any voluntary manner
the chose. I would never want to live in one, but I would also support the
right of the Hutterites to build a commune here. As for the Sounthern
Poverty Law Center, I have a fair amount of respect for Alan Dershowitz, not
so much for Mark Potok,.
Roger
-----Original Message-----
Subject: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
From: rhayes at frontier.com
To: "Saundra Lund"
Date: 01/16/13 19:43:40
Very good research "Saundra.Below is the quote and below that is the link
you asked for.While they don't yet seem to espouse the typical hate
rhetoric, I don't think they will be fun neighbors if the dubious plan goes
forward. Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law Center,
said he doubts the group is any bigger than one or two individuals looking
to win a following. He called it nothing more than an idle fantasy."We don't
know who's behind it, but the claim that there are several hundred people
involved is patently ludicrous," Potok said. "We're likely talking about a
man, a dog and his computer envisioning this whole imaginary city. We don't
take it that seriously."
Read more:
http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/patriot-group-looks-to-create-armed-community-in-idaho-montana/article_3f4368e3-407c-590e-9263-594456826987.html#ixzz2IAHyZvCs
From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; keim153 at gmail.com
Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:52 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Another hate group
At the risk of Paul again confusing discussion with hate . . . Roger (Falen)
wrote:"I do not know anything about this group, but how does anyone know
that they are a hate group? A little bit wako probably, but not necessarily
a hate group." I think the question is a good one, and I don't think we
know the answer to it. After all, hate groups rarely (if ever) consider
themselves to be hate groups, you know J And, what they say for public
consumption is often quite different than what they say amongst the inner
circle. To back up a bit, I can't find anything where the SPLC has looked
at the Citadel and its separate but integral III Arms - Roger (Hayes), can
you provide a link? The group clearly considers itself to be part of the
"Patriot" movement & reveres John Wesley, Rawls (yawn, one of those highly
paid anti-government doomsday/prepper/survivalist types) and his
"American Redoubt." Rawls, however, has recently disavowed any connection
to III Citadel, which I found hilarious, while failing to distance himself
from the weapons manufacture of III Arms Company, which is how this group
expects to fund the III Citadel. They've supposedly purchased 20 acres (so
far) in the St. Maries area & plan on starting to build the III Arms factory
(the first phase) there in early-to-mid year. At this point, I think their
weapons are still being custom-manufactured in WV . . . if they are actually
being made at all. And, in my book, the interesting thing about the III
Citadel is the III Arms Company - lots of right-wing extremists have
attempted to establish insular communities, but they typically fail, is
seems to me, because of the finances (as well as in-fighting, not to mention
not being able to play well with others, something the III Citadel/III Arms
Company hasn't avoided). III Arms Company is an attempt (or perhaps a scam)
to provide funding to make the III Citadel a reality (or a more profitable
scam). The whole thing makes me think of a bunch of silly role-playing
teenagers enamored with their interpretation of the Second Amendment trying
to form a doomsday utopia as an excuse for their hoarding tendencies &
expensive deadly toys. However, I find the psychology very interesting! In
tough economic times, it's fascinating to me that anyone would turn over
$208 to "apply" to lease a "home" in a walled community that probably won't
exist anytime soon. They estimate that the cost of that silly wall alone
will cost in the neighborhood of $25 million. An examination of the stated
goals of the III Citadel community and associated costs aren't realistic,
financially or otherwise. Reading the blogs of those involved shows -at
best - a stunning ignorance of basics like sustainability, economics, legal
principles, weather in Benewah County, growing seasons, roads,
accessibility, etc. But . . . it gets even better J III Arms claims that
it's a non-profit! I kid you not J
http://iiiarms.blogspot.com/2012/11/black-rifle-friday.html "And remember,
III Arms is not a for-profit company. All proceeds go to the Citadel
Project, to help build a bastion of Liberty for us all." ROTFLOF!!! But,
wait: it gets even better J Has anyone besides me wondered why the III
Citadel is collecting money but doesn't have a spokesperson? Curious, don't
you think? Well, perhaps it's because the person behind the "firearms arms
required" III Citadel and initially behind III Arms Co. is a federally
convicted felon who apparently isn't even able to legally own a firearm J
I kid you not! I've been trying
to track down rumors & facts for a couple of weeks now since Tom first
posted, and the earliest references I've been able to find originated with a
man apparently named Christian or Chris Kerodin, which may or may not be his
real name since he's a dude with a lot of apparent aliases, scams, and
blogs. But, in reading his blogs, he definitely seems to be this
guy:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/26/20040326-124129-2670r/print/An
Alexandria, Va., man was sentenced yesterday in federal court to 30 months
in prison and fined $6,000 after he pleaded guilty in January to charges of
extortion and possessing an unregistered short-barreled rifle.U.S. Attorney
Paul J. McNulty in Alexandria said Christian Kerodin, 36, was sentenced by
U.S. District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee, who also ordered that the prison term
be followed by three years of supervised release.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin
published a report on the Internet in May titled "Terrorist Target List:
American Retailers & Restaurants," which said shopping venues were likely to
be prime targets for terrorist attacks and billed himself as a security
expert.A month later, he said, Kerodin contacted officials at the Fashion
Centre at Pentagon City, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria, saying that a
new edition of his Internet report was due shortly and that if they
contracted with him for security assessments, he would not include their
names in the new report as needing security upgrades.The Fashion Centre is
owned by the Simon Property Group, and Landmark and Tysons Galleria are
owned by General Growth Properties Inc.Mr. McNulty said mall officials asked
Kerodin to provide the names of other clients for references or to supply
credentials for persons who worked for his company. He refused, saying he
did not need
experience to be an expert in counterterrorism. None of the malls hired
him.In July, Kerodin published the report, which criticized several area
shopping malls for being vulnerable to terrorist attacks, specifically
criticizing the Fashion Centre, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria. Mr.
McNulty said Kerodin recontacted officials at Simon and General Growth by
letter and threatened to release similarly negative reports on 14 other
properties that the companies owned.An agent from the Department of Homeland
Security posing as a mall executive then contacted Kerodin, telling him the
malls had hired another security company and asking that they not be
included in additional reports. The agent also offered Kerodin $40,000 to be
left out of any new reports.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin rejected the offer and
demanded $122,500. He then was arrested."This defendant took advantage of
the heightened
concern we all have to protect ourselves from terrorism. It is reprehensible
that someone would exploit that concern for personal gain," Mr. McNulty
said.Huh. I guess their definition of "law-abiding" is quite a bit
different than is mine. And, I feel soooo much better (not!) that it's his
wife Holly, rather than convicted felon Christian Kerodin himself, who is
listed with the Idaho Secretary of State as a "member or manager" of III
Arms Company, LLC:http://www.accessidaho.org/public/sos/corp/W116214.html I
highly recommend checking out (one of) Kerodin's blogs. Here's a
sample:http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2013/01/in-absence-of-orders-go-find-something.html
In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.I borrowed the
title from WRSA.
I think you will see this phrase again on this blog.
If we are Citizen Soldiers, a Leaderless entity, or small groups of Patriots
who have installed a command structure among themselves, but otherwise
answer to no central command, then it is incumbant upon each of us to
shoulder our portion of the burden and act independantly.
In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.
You'll know when. You already know who. You should know where they are in
your AO.
You know what is Evil.
You know what it is going to take to backfist the Tyrants out of our lives
for the next few generations. Fight to the knife, and knife to the hilt...
Standing Orders: In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill
it.
Kerodin
III Wow - that's just the kind of dude I want as an Idahoan!!! Is that, and
a lot of other vitriol he's written, "hate"? Rather than recount a lot of
details, an article providing lots of interesting background was just
published:http://politicker.com/2013/01/meet-the-men-who-want-to-build-an-armed-castle-commune-for-patriots/James
L. Miller is many things, a motorcycle enthusiast, accused online scammer,
doomsday prepper, gunmaker and cat lover. Christian Kerodin also wears a
number of hats; he is an air conditioning repairman, blogger, author,
self-styled security consultant and convicted extortionist. Both men also
seem to be the masterminds behind a plan to build a massive, armed
survivalist compound in Idaho that has been making national
headlines.According to the website of the Citadel, it will be a "community
of 3,500 - 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who voluntarily
choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of
Rightful Liberty" and is being planned for Northern Idaho. Among other
things, the designs for the Citadel include a "perimeter defense" with
castle-style fortified walls and towers, an on-site gun factory, hotels,
schools, a "firearms museum," a "town militia," jail and farmer's market. As
of now, the community is planned for Benewah County in Northern Idaho.
Prospective residents of the Citadel are asked to submit to an application
process that includes agreeing to participate in the militia and pass
periodic proficiency tests with multiple types of firearms."Marxists,
Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that
life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and
preferred lifestyles," the website says.Though the Citadel website claims
the group has no "leader" and is
the work of "scores of Liberty-loving individuals," it appears Mr. Miller
and Mr. Kerodin are two of the main forces behind the project. The roman
numeral in the community's name seems to be derived from "III Percent
Patriots," a blog operated by Mr. Kerodin where the early discussions were
held planning the Citadel's design and potential locations. An entry on Mr.
Kerodin's personal website describes the meaning of the term "III Percent
Patriots.""Historians consider that about 3 percent of Americans took arms
and challenged the King during the Revolution. 3 percent. III Percent.
Threepers. Patriots. We exist today," Mr. Kerodin wrote. "We are that
percentage of Americans who have the tools and mettle of the Militiaman who
stand and have drawn a hard line for the Hard Right of the political
spectrum."Along with his political activities, Mr. Kerodin has also worked
as a repairman for
heating and air conditioning systems. In 2002, Mr. Kerodin started a
security consultancy. The following year, he printed an eight-page analysis
of terrorism weaknesses at shopping malls in the Washington D.C. area.
According to reports from the time, he subsequently contacted mall operators
in the area and told them they would be included in other similar analyses
if they did not hire him to conduct security assessments. A concerned
company contacted the Secret Service who had an undercover agent contact Mr.
Kerodin who allegedly agreed to keep the business out of his reports after
accepting a $120,000 check. He was arrested and indicted for an extortion
charge to which he plead guilty. Mr. Kerodin was sentenced to 30 months in
prison for the crime and an associated firearms charge. As a federal felon,
Mr. Kerodin cannot own a weapon, but on his website, he says he is
"exploring" legal
avenues to "recover" his "firearms rights."In one of the Citadel planning
posts on Mr. Kerodin's blogs, a commenter using an online alias linked to
Mr. Miller, "Millerized," offers to bring his "firearm smithing" skills to
the community. "Millerized," is also one of the authors of the Citadel blog.
In addition to being his online alias, "Millerized" was also the name of a
company previously by Mr. Miller that originally made motorcycle parts. Last
October, Millerized began doing business as "III Arms." The III Arms website
describes it as a firearms company "dedicated to building first-class
fighting arms for the defense of Jefferson's Rightful Liberty." III Arms
will have a factory inside the Citadel's walls that is planned to be the
prime source of revenue and employment for the project's early residents.
Mr. Miller is identified on LinkedIn as the "president" of III Arms.In
addition
to Mr. Miller's business activities, he has an extensive digital trail that
includes "Millerized's" participation in sites for self-described doomsday
"preppers" and survivalists. On one of these forums, Millerized describes
work done in his house where he has multiple cats. A web page tied to Mr.
Miller's name and address is also identified as having participated in
so-called "phishing" scams on a site dedicated to identifying these
fraudulent attempts to obtain personal information.As of this writing,
neither Mr. Miller or Mr. Kerodin have responded to multiple requests for
comment on this story. However, Mr. Miller seems to be enjoying the
attention the Citadel has recently received. A Facebook page that seems to
belong to Mr. Miller features pictures of customized military fatigues with
the III Arms logo and the words "Millerized" and "Patriot." It also includes
a picture of one of
the Citadel's more prominent media mentions, a headline about the community
on the Drudge Report accompanied by the following caption from Mr.
Miller:"We are now huge."For those interested in learning more, remember
Google is your friend, but be prepared to shower frequently. What's that
saying? Oh, yeah, "A fool and his money are soon parted." Personally, I
prefer to take the "scam" perspective because the alternative is enough to
chill the bones of any person with connected brain cells. Saundra
LundMoscow, ID To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards out
of men.~ Abraham Lincoln From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:50 PM
To: keim153 at gmail.com
Cc: vision 2020; rhayes at frontier.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group Darrell,
I agree, though I have to add that someone posted about them last month; I
think it was Tom.
SunilDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:28:26 -0800
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
From: keim153 at gmail.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
I am the original poster of this topic. I never called it a hate group. I
called them survivalists. I think Roger Hayes changed the subject to a hate
tagline. What say you, Roger?On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Sunil
Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:I'm with Roger on this. Maybe
they're complete nut jobs, but I don't know that they're a hate group.
What is the evidence behind that claim?
SunilDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:36:50 +0100
To: thansen at moscow.com; keim153 at gmail.com
From: lfalen at turbonet.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate groupI do not know anything about
this group, but how does anyone know that they are a hate group? A little
bit wako probably, but not necessarily a hate group.Roger
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
From: "Tom Hansen"
To: "Darrell Keim"
Date: 01/13/13 23:12:16How's this for "freedom"" My father was a POW in
Stalag Luft IIIA during the last year and a half of WW2. I am convinced
that he experienced less isolation than the freedom-loving residents of the
Citadel.Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow
Cares"http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho "There's room at
the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile
as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill." - John Lennon
On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
Goodie. So it will be like Bo Gritz "Almost Heaven" near Kamiah.
Wonderful.On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM, rhayes at frontier.com
<rhayes at frontier.com> wrote: The Southern Poverty Law Center has dismissed
this "group" as a couple of guys with a computer who are trying to drum up a
following and bilk those who take the bait of cash.
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