[Vision2020] Another hate group?

[Joe Campbell]

What is wrong with the Southern Poverty Law Center? Didn't they chase away
the Neo-Nazis up north? Joe

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

> I would also like to thank Saundra for her research. I would hope that
> this group never gets off the ground, we do not need them in this area.
> However any group should have  the right to build and live in any voluntary
> manner the chose. I would never want to live in one, but I would also
> support the right of the Hutterites to build a commune here. As for the
> Sounthern Poverty Law Center, I have a fair amount of respect for Alan
> Dershowitz, not so much for Mark Potok,.
> Roger
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: [Vision2020] Another hate group?
> From: rhayes at frontier.com
> To: "Saundra Lund"
> Date: 01/16/13 19:43:40
>
> Very good research "Saundra.Below is the quote and below that is the link
> you asked for.While they don't yet seem to espouse the typical hate
> rhetoric, I don't think they will be fun neighbors if the  dubious plan
> goes forward. Mark Potok, a senior fellow at the Southern Poverty Law
> Center, said he doubts the group is any bigger than one or two individuals
> looking to win a following. He called it nothing more than an idle
> fantasy."We don't know who's behind it, but the claim that there are
> several hundred people involved is patently ludicrous," Potok said. "We're
> likely talking about a man, a dog and his computer envisioning this whole
> imaginary city. We don't take it that seriously."
>
> Read more:
> http://billingsgazette.com/news/state-and-regional/montana/patriot-group-looks-to-create-armed-community-in-idaho-montana/article_3f4368e3-407c-590e-9263-594456826987.html#ixzz2IAHyZvCs
>
>   From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> To: 'Sunil Ramalingam' <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>; keim153 at gmail.com
> Cc: 'vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2013 2:52 AM
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Another hate group
>
>  At the risk of Paul again confusing discussion with hate . . . Roger
> (Falen) wrote:"I do not know anything about this group, but how does anyone
> know that they are a hate group?  A little bit wako probably, but not
> necessarily a hate group."  I think the question is a good one, and I don't
> think we know the answer to it.  After all, hate groups rarely (if ever)
> consider themselves to be hate groups, you know J  And, what they say for
> public consumption is often quite different than what they say amongst the
> inner circle.  To back up a bit, I can't find anything where the SPLC has
> looked at the Citadel and its separate but integral III Arms - Roger
> (Hayes), can you provide a link?  The group clearly considers itself to be
> part of the "Patriot" movement & reveres John Wesley, Rawls (yawn, one of
> those highly paid anti-government doomsday/prepper/survivalist types) and
> his
> "American Redoubt."  Rawls, however, has recently disavowed any connection
> to III Citadel, which I found hilarious, while failing to distance himself
> from the weapons manufacture of III Arms Company, which is how this group
> expects to fund the III Citadel.  They've supposedly purchased 20 acres (so
> far) in the St. Maries area & plan on starting to build the III Arms
> factory (the first phase) there in early-to-mid year.  At this point, I
> think their weapons are still being custom-manufactured in WV . . . if they
> are actually being made at all. And, in my book, the interesting thing
> about the III Citadel is the III Arms Company - lots of right-wing
> extremists have attempted to establish insular communities, but they
> typically fail, is seems to me, because of the finances (as well as
> in-fighting, not to mention not being able to play well with others,
> something the III Citadel/III Arms
> Company hasn't avoided).  III Arms Company is an attempt (or perhaps a
> scam) to provide funding to make the III Citadel a reality (or a more
> profitable scam). The whole thing makes me think of a bunch of silly
> role-playing teenagers enamored with their interpretation of the Second
> Amendment trying to form a doomsday utopia as an excuse for their hoarding
> tendencies & expensive deadly toys. However, I find the psychology very
> interesting!  In tough economic times, it's fascinating to me that anyone
> would turn over $208 to "apply" to lease a "home" in a walled community
> that probably won't exist anytime soon.  They estimate that the cost of
> that silly wall alone will cost in the neighborhood of $25 million.  An
> examination of the stated goals of the III Citadel community and associated
> costs aren't realistic, financially or otherwise.  Reading the blogs of
> those involved shows -at
> best - a stunning ignorance of basics like sustainability, economics,
> legal principles, weather in Benewah County, growing seasons, roads,
> accessibility, etc.  But . . . it gets even better  J  III Arms claims that
> it's a non-profit!  I kid you not  J
> http://iiiarms.blogspot.com/2012/11/black-rifle-friday.html "And
> remember, III Arms is not a for-profit company. All proceeds go to the
> Citadel Project, to help build a bastion of Liberty for us
> all."  ROTFLOF!!!  But, wait:  it gets even better  J  Has anyone besides
> me wondered why the III Citadel is collecting money but doesn't have a
> spokesperson?  Curious, don't you think?  Well, perhaps it's because the
> person behind the "firearms arms required" III Citadel and initially behind
> III Arms Co. is a federally convicted felon who apparently isn't even able
> to legally own a firearm  J  I kid you not!  I've been trying
> to track down rumors & facts for a couple of weeks now since Tom first
> posted, and the earliest references I've been able to find originated with
> a man apparently named Christian or Chris Kerodin, which may or may not be
> his real name since he's a dude with a lot of apparent aliases, scams, and
> blogs.  But, in reading his blogs, he definitely seems to be this guy:
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/mar/26/20040326-124129-2670r/print/AnAlexandria, Va., man was sentenced yesterday in federal court to 30 months
> in prison and fined $6,000 after he pleaded guilty in January to charges of
> extortion and possessing an unregistered short-barreled rifle.U.S. Attorney
> Paul J. McNulty in Alexandria said Christian Kerodin, 36, was sentenced by
> U.S. District Judge Gerald Bruce Lee, who also ordered that the prison term
> be followed by three years of supervised release.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin
> published a report on the Internet in May titled "Terrorist Target List:
> American Retailers & Restaurants," which said shopping venues were likely
> to be prime targets for terrorist attacks and billed himself as a security
> expert.A month later, he said, Kerodin contacted officials at the Fashion
> Centre at Pentagon City, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria, saying that a
> new edition of his Internet report was due shortly and that if they
> contracted with him for security assessments, he would not include their
> names in the new report as needing security upgrades.The Fashion Centre is
> owned by the Simon Property Group, and Landmark and Tysons Galleria are
> owned by General Growth Properties Inc.Mr. McNulty said mall officials
> asked Kerodin to provide the names of other clients for references or to
> supply credentials for persons who worked for his company. He refused,
> saying he did not need
> experience to be an expert in counterterrorism. None of the malls hired
> him.In July, Kerodin published the report, which criticized several area
> shopping malls for being vulnerable to terrorist attacks, specifically
> criticizing the Fashion Centre, Landmark Mall and Tysons Galleria. Mr.
> McNulty said Kerodin recontacted officials at Simon and General Growth by
> letter and threatened to release similarly negative reports on 14 other
> properties that the companies owned.An agent from the Department of
> Homeland Security posing as a mall executive then contacted Kerodin,
> telling him the malls had hired another security company and asking that
> they not be included in additional reports. The agent also offered Kerodin
> $40,000 to be left out of any new reports.Mr. McNulty said Kerodin rejected
> the offer and demanded $122,500. He then was arrested."This defendant took
> advantage of the heightened
> concern we all have to protect ourselves from terrorism. It is
> reprehensible that someone would exploit that concern for personal gain,"
> Mr. McNulty said.Huh.  I guess their definition of "law-abiding" is quite a
> bit different than is mine.  And, I feel soooo much better (not!) that it's
> his wife Holly, rather than convicted felon Christian Kerodin himself, who
> is listed with the Idaho Secretary of State as a "member or manager" of III
> Arms Company, LLC:http://www.accessidaho.org/public/sos/corp/W116214.html I
> highly recommend checking out (one of) Kerodin's blogs.  Here's a sample:
> http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2013/01/in-absence-of-orders-go-find-something.html In
> the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.I borrowed the
> title from WRSA.
>
> I think you will see this phrase again on this blog.
>
> If we are Citizen Soldiers, a Leaderless entity, or small groups of
> Patriots who have installed a command structure among themselves, but
> otherwise answer to no central command, then it is incumbant upon each of
> us to shoulder our portion of the burden and act independantly.
>
> In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill it.
>
> You'll know when. You already know who. You should know where they are in
> your AO.
>
> You know what is Evil.
>
> You know what it is going to take to backfist the Tyrants out of our lives
> for the next few generations. Fight to the knife, and knife to the hilt...
>
> Standing Orders: In the absence of orders, go find something evil and kill
> it.
>
> Kerodin
> III Wow - that's just the kind of dude I want as an Idahoan!!!  Is that,
> and a lot of other vitriol he's written, "hate"? Rather than recount a lot
> of details, an article providing lots of interesting background was just
> published:
> http://politicker.com/2013/01/meet-the-men-who-want-to-build-an-armed-castle-commune-for-patriots/JamesL. Miller is many things, a motorcycle enthusiast, accused online scammer,
> doomsday prepper, gunmaker and cat lover. Christian Kerodin also wears a
> number of hats; he is an air conditioning repairman, blogger, author,
> self-styled security consultant and convicted extortionist. Both men also
> seem to be the masterminds behind a plan to build a massive, armed
> survivalist compound in Idaho that has been making national
> headlines.According to the website of the Citadel, it will be a "community
> of 3,500 - 7,000 families of patriotic Americans who voluntarily
> choose to live together in accordance with Thomas Jefferson's ideal of
> Rightful Liberty" and is being planned for Northern Idaho. Among other
> things, the designs for the Citadel include a "perimeter defense" with
> castle-style fortified walls and towers, an on-site gun factory, hotels,
> schools, a "firearms museum," a "town militia," jail and farmer's market.
> As of now, the community is planned for Benewah County in Northern Idaho.
> Prospective residents of the Citadel are asked to submit to an application
> process that includes agreeing to participate in the militia and pass
> periodic proficiency tests with multiple types of firearms."Marxists,
> Socialists, Liberals and Establishment Republicans will likely find that
> life in our community is incompatible with their existing ideology and
> preferred lifestyles," the website says.Though the Citadel website claims
> the group has no "leader" and is
> the work of "scores of Liberty-loving individuals," it appears Mr. Miller
> and Mr. Kerodin are two of the main forces behind the project. The roman
> numeral in the community's name seems to be derived from "III Percent
> Patriots," a blog operated by Mr. Kerodin where the early discussions were
> held planning the Citadel's design and potential locations. An entry on Mr.
> Kerodin's personal website describes the meaning of the term "III Percent
> Patriots.""Historians consider that about 3 percent of Americans took arms
> and challenged the King during the Revolution. 3 percent. III Percent.
> Threepers. Patriots. We exist today," Mr. Kerodin wrote. "We are that
> percentage of Americans who have the tools and mettle of the Militiaman who
> stand and have drawn a hard line for the Hard Right of the political
> spectrum."Along with his political activities, Mr. Kerodin has also worked
> as a repairman for
> heating and air conditioning systems. In 2002, Mr. Kerodin started a
> security consultancy. The following year, he printed an eight-page analysis
> of terrorism weaknesses at shopping malls in the Washington D.C. area.
> According to reports from the time, he subsequently contacted mall
> operators in the area and told them they would be included in other similar
> analyses if they did not hire him to conduct security assessments. A
> concerned company contacted the Secret Service who had an undercover agent
> contact Mr. Kerodin who allegedly agreed to keep the business out of his
> reports after accepting a $120,000 check. He was arrested and indicted for
> an extortion charge to which he plead guilty. Mr. Kerodin was sentenced to
> 30 months in prison for the crime and an associated firearms charge. As a
> federal felon, Mr. Kerodin cannot own a weapon, but on his website, he says
> he is "exploring" legal
> avenues to "recover" his "firearms rights."In one of the Citadel planning
> posts on Mr. Kerodin's blogs, a commenter using an online alias linked to
> Mr. Miller, "Millerized," offers to bring his "firearm smithing" skills to
> the community. "Millerized," is also one of the authors of the Citadel
> blog. In addition to being his online alias, "Millerized" was also the name
> of a company previously by Mr. Miller that originally made motorcycle
> parts. Last October, Millerized began doing business as "III Arms." The III
> Arms website describes it as a firearms company "dedicated to building
> first-class fighting arms for the defense of Jefferson's Rightful Liberty."
> III Arms will have a factory inside the Citadel's walls that is planned to
> be the prime source of revenue and employment for the project's early
> residents. Mr. Miller is identified on LinkedIn as the "president" of III
> Arms.In addition
> to Mr. Miller's business activities, he has an extensive digital trail
> that includes "Millerized's" participation in sites for self-described
> doomsday "preppers" and survivalists. On one of these forums, Millerized
> describes work done in his house where he has multiple cats. A web page
> tied to Mr. Miller's name and address is also identified as having
> participated in so-called "phishing" scams on a site dedicated to
> identifying these fraudulent attempts to obtain personal information.As of
> this writing, neither Mr. Miller or Mr. Kerodin have responded to multiple
> requests for comment on this story. However, Mr. Miller seems to be
> enjoying the attention the Citadel has recently received. A Facebook page
> that seems to belong to Mr. Miller features pictures of customized military
> fatigues with the III Arms logo and the words "Millerized" and "Patriot."
> It also includes a picture of one of
> the Citadel's more prominent media mentions, a headline about the
> community on the Drudge Report accompanied by the following caption from
> Mr. Miller:"We are now huge."For those interested in learning more,
> remember Google is your friend, but be prepared to shower
> frequently. What's that saying?  Oh, yeah, "A fool and his money are soon
> parted." Personally, I prefer to take the "scam" perspective because the
> alternative is enough to chill the bones of any person with connected brain
> cells.  Saundra LundMoscow, ID To sin by silence when they should protest
> makes cowards out of men.~ Abraham Lincoln   From:
> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On
> Behalf Of Sunil Ramalingam
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 9:50 PM
> To: keim153 at gmail.com
> Cc: vision 2020; rhayes at frontier.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group  Darrell,
>
> I agree, though I have to add that someone posted about them last month; I
> think it was Tom.
>
> SunilDate: Sun, 13 Jan 2013 21:28:26 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
> From: keim153 at gmail.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>
>
> I am the original poster of this topic.  I never called it a hate group.
> I called them survivalists.  I think Roger Hayes changed the subject to a
> hate tagline.  What say you, Roger?On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 9:22 PM, Sunil
> Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:I'm with Roger on this.
> Maybe they're complete nut jobs, but I don't know that they're a hate group.
>
> What is the evidence behind that claim?
>
> SunilDate: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 02:36:50 +0100
> To: thansen at moscow.com; keim153 at gmail.com
> From: lfalen at turbonet.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate groupI do not know anything about
> this group, but how does anyone know that they are a hate group?  A little
> bit wako probably, but not necessarily a hate group.Roger
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another hate group
> From: "Tom Hansen"
> To: "Darrell Keim"
> Date: 01/13/13 23:12:16How's this for "freedom""  My father was a POW in
> Stalag Luft IIIA during the last year and a half of WW2.  I am convinced
> that he experienced less isolation than the freedom-loving residents of the
> Citadel.Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow Cares"
> http://www.moscowcares.com/  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho  "There's room at
> the top they are telling you still    But first you must learn how to smile
> as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."    - John Lennon
> On Jan 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Goodie.  So it will be like Bo Gritz "Almost Heaven" near Kamiah.
> Wonderful.On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM, rhayes at frontier.com <
> rhayes at frontier.com> wrote: The Southern Poverty Law Center has dismissed
> this "group" as a couple of guys with a computer who are trying to drum up
> a following and bilk those who take the bait of cash.
>
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