[Vision2020] Wayne Krauss

Darrell Keim keim153 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 27 14:12:04 PST 2013 

Not seeing how adding more laws (and complexity) to the legal system makes
lawyers more affordable.

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>wrote:

> Darrell,
>
> I'm sorry but very few people can afford to go to court to protect the
> rights that they are guaranteed by the Constitution and other laws.
>
> Have you priced a decent trial attorney lately?  Do you have any idea
> about the amount of billable hours are needed to pursue a civil rights
> lawsuit?   Do you know how much time and aggravation is involved for the
> plaintiff in a civil rights lawsuit?  And how long it takes?  And how the
> defendants argue that the meaning of the Constitution does not include
> whatever right is being claimed by the plaintiff?
>
> "Just enforce present laws" has been the watchwords of racists,
> homophobes, sexists, etc for a long time because they know how little
> chance there is of enforcement via plaintiff originated lawsuits.  That's
> why we need special laws with enforcement teeth and huge penalties for
> violators.  Until civil rights legislation was enacted during the Lyndon
> Johnson administration and except for a few brave forays by Eisenhower,
> black people were basically SOL.
>
> One has to be especially insensitive and/or ignorant not to see that
> Krauss was comparing gay, transgendered, etc persons to subhuman monkeys --
> demeaning language once used to argue against civil rights for blacks.
>
> If Krauss doesn't want to be seen as an ignorant, insensitive bigot, then
> he needs to change his lifelong habits of speaking and acting like one.
> Good luck with that.
>
> I agree with Roger Hayes.  An apology is not sufficient,  An apology is
> needed, but its sincerity will be in great doubt without a resignation.
>
> w.
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Enforcement of current laws is the key.  If they are being ignored,
>> why does creation of MORE laws solve anything?  They are just as easily
>> ignored.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
>>
>>>   It seems to me, “We can’t work with the simple rules we have,”
>>> because they don’t work.  If they did, we wouldn’t be having this
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> Sue H
>>>
>>>  *From:* Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:04 AM
>>> *To:* Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
>>>
>>>  I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to
>>> explain his remarks.  He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't
>>> need to have special protections for different groups.  We should hold
>>> ourselves to the standard of treating all people equally, which our
>>> Constitution already guarantees.
>>>
>>> While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters
>>> have a way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the
>>> sentiment he attempted to express.  Why can't we work with the simple rule
>>> already expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with
>>> basic dignity and decency.  The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is
>>> being made out to be.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>   Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide
>>>> a revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment
>>>> implying consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is
>>>> part of a longer saga.
>>>>
>>>> There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made
>>>> a fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the
>>>> Hawkins scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the
>>>> long circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the
>>>> Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a
>>>> tire iron.
>>>>
>>>> w.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  What a horse’s rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be.
>>>>> Disgusting.****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> Here’s the article Roger Hayes referred to:****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>> Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee****
>>>>>
>>>>> *By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February
>>>>> 26, 2013 12:00 am *****
>>>>>
>>>>> Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based
>>>>> on sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow,
>>>>> Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for
>>>>> more protections would end.****
>>>>>
>>>>> *Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a
>>>>> business and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance
>>>>> for monkey owners. *
>>>>>
>>>>> Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of
>>>>> his draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed
>>>>> to refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender
>>>>> identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same
>>>>> basis. It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person
>>>>> based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.****
>>>>>
>>>>> On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to
>>>>> repair, maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the
>>>>> result of such discrimination, Fife said.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies,
>>>>> boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings,
>>>>> such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of
>>>>> the units.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants,
>>>>> which often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to
>>>>> anyone, could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or
>>>>> gender identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone
>>>>> felt that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint
>>>>> under the ordinance.****
>>>>>
>>>>> "I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form
>>>>> of bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react
>>>>> to a continuous list of discriminatory grievances.****
>>>>>
>>>>> "The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the
>>>>> 14th Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"****
>>>>>
>>>>> The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its
>>>>> jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."****
>>>>>
>>>>> Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the
>>>>> books in Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's.
>>>>> The proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human
>>>>> rights acts.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of
>>>>> their sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the
>>>>> Moscow Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation
>>>>> and file a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim
>>>>> constitutes an offense under the ordinance.****
>>>>>
>>>>> If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the
>>>>> city attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't
>>>>> be met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be
>>>>> reduced to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be
>>>>> dismissed.****
>>>>>
>>>>> "You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said,
>>>>> adding the criminal process might do better in a separate council
>>>>> resolution.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the
>>>>> Idaho Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its
>>>>> human rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of
>>>>> committee.****
>>>>>
>>>>> "That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality,"
>>>>> Krauss said.****
>>>>>
>>>>> The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable
>>>>> Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative
>>>>> Committee to forward the draft to the full council.****
>>>>>
>>>>> *More Well No. 9 problems*****
>>>>>
>>>>> Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled
>>>>> Well No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday
>>>>> knocked out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground
>>>>> fault was detected, which means something is short-circuiting the
>>>>> electricity being channeled through the pump and motor, he said.****
>>>>>
>>>>> "It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the
>>>>> motor was sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was
>>>>> reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric
>>>>> current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The
>>>>> motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company
>>>>> before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.****
>>>>>
>>>>> The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further
>>>>> testing in Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a
>>>>> "whale song" noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system,
>>>>> MacDonald said. Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and
>>>>> motor by crane began Monday and should be completed today. He added an
>>>>> outside consultant may need to be brought in to determine the city's next
>>>>> move. Well No. 9 can produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.****
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *Brandon Macz* can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238, or by
>>>>> email to bmacz at dnews.com.****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> And, here’s the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> *Basic human rights*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am *****
>>>>>
>>>>> Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service
>>>>> to monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing
>>>>> and job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender
>>>>> identity.****
>>>>>
>>>>> As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (
>>>>> *Daily News*, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone
>>>>> bringing monkeys into a business and being refused service would require a
>>>>> discrimination ordinance for monkey owners."****
>>>>>
>>>>> You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article.
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> Think about what he is really saying.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet
>>>>> Krauss is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic
>>>>> human rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.**
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>> *Lisa Kliger*****
>>>>>
>>>>> Moscow****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:
>>>>> vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] *On Behalf Of *Rosemary Huskey
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM
>>>>> *To:* rhayes at frontier.com; 'Moscow Vision 2020'
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss’ remarks.  Where did he make them?
>>>>> Thank you for letting 2020 readers know.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Rose Huskey****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [
>>>>> mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>]
>>>>> *On Behalf Of *rhayes at frontier.com
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM
>>>>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> *Subject:* [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss****
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> And yesterday Wayne Krauss was quoted that offering equal protection
>>>>> to all citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to
>>>>> bringing monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service. ****
>>>>>
>>>>> In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council. ***
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> For those with short memories:
>>>>>
>>>>> On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be hornswoggled
>>>>> Carscalen
>>>>> and Krauss are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed
>>>>> (acting
>>>>> in the conflicting roles of city council person and *defacto* agent
>>>>> of his
>>>>> longtime associates Hawkins) hornswoggled the council into the
>>>>> sweetheart
>>>>> deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental
>>>>> interests of Idaho citizens.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?
>>>>>
>>>>> w.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  ****
>>>>>
>>>>>    ****
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>>>> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
>
>
>
> =======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
>
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