[Vision2020] Dorner and Gun Control

Wed Feb 13 13:08:11 PST 2013

@Matt,

The meaning of the Second Amendment is ambiguous.  There are huge
disagreements about what it means.

Google:  "Second Amendment" interpretation

For example, the word militia is singular, not plural.  This most likely
means that the frames thought there be only one militia ostensibly under
government control.  Not a whole bunches of crazies running around on their
own claiming to be sovereign bodies.

w.

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>  Joe,
>
> I can agree that guns can be dangerous, less likely in the right hands.
> Mistakes happen though. In the LAPD instance, a very bad one. I'm sure
> those officers will be punished. We agree if guns can be dangerous, should
> we remove all of them? If no, then why? Pistols are used in the majority of
> all gun related deaths. If yes, why? Should we really open up the can of
> worms against our founding fathers principles. Neither, then why?
>
> We agree gun violence is bad. Over 11,000 gun related homicides occurred
> in 2012. In my opinion, the type of gun used matters little. All assualt
> type weapons(AR15, AK47, etc), dad's hunting rifles, and all types of
> shotguns accounted for 8% of the 11,000 murders in 2012. Yet our President
> keeps pushing for common sense approach. Common sense this and that. I
> don't believe his approach will solve the problem. Banning the guns that
> look mean will have little to do with our homicide rate. A common sense
> arguement would be looking at the preferred weopon. Pistols.
>
> How do we solve this? Hell I don't know, but I feel that our society as a
> whole is turning to a darker page. It starts at home. Parents must raise
> their children to respect others and be held accountable. Not to
> point fingers or sue because they can. As parents we should all monitor are
> children on what they watch, play, or listen too. My kids are not allowed
> to watch R rated movies. I also teach them to be self dependant, not too
> rely on others. I feel that too many rely on the government too
> heavily. Use them when you need, but not as a crutch. People these days are
> too sensitive or PC. Say it like it is, but respect others while doing
> it. It starts from home. Single. I don't care. No dad? So what. How many
> gay female couples are raising their children properly without a dad. We as
> parents must raise our children properly. That means with guns as well. I
> own numerous guns, and my children know the do's and dont's.
>
> As I've stated before, gun control is a complex issue. I don't have all
> the answers, but I do think some ideas could help.
>
> -Harder back ground checks for purchases of guns, have a shared data
> network that works
> -Harder back ground checks for the applications of concealed weapons permit
> -Legalize weed
> -educate our youth on gun safety
> -enforce current laws, punish those who break the law
> -mental health is huge
>
> The former Marine that recently shot and killed hero Navy Seal Chris Kyle
> was at the VA twice for implying he would shoot others and kill himself
> should have been a pretty f'n big red flag that something is off. How
> Whitney Houston had flags at half mass and Kyle didn't is another indicator
> that our society has it's morales all messed up, that's another topic
> though. Back on track. Mental health needs to be addressed. As Art stated,
> we don't currently have the money for it. We should strive to make sure
> those people get help or are closely monitored. We have the ability in the
> military, so let's make sure our returning hero's come home mentally sound.
> PTSD is a huge upcoming problem for us and we need to make sure our prior
> military get all the help they need.
>
> For me though Joe it starts at home.
>
> Take care,
>
> Matt
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 00:40:26 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Dorner and Gun Control
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
>
> Thanks for the comments -- Jeff (which I agree with totally) and Matt. As
> Jeff suggested, I'd have been better off leaving out the gun control
> issues, so I'll do that for now!
>
> My apologies to the LAPD. I didn't mean to demean them. My point was --
> rather -- even skilled, respected officers can make mistakes. Thus, guns
> are dangerous. It is really so hard to accept that guns are dangerous? Can
> we all just accept that and continue the debate from that point? Or do I
> have to argue that guns are dangerous?
>
> Certainly how folks are raised and mental health have something to do with
> gun violence, too. But how much control do we have over how people are
> raised? Do you want to pass laws to ensure that parents raise their
> children correctly? That seems wrong. Should we incarcerate the insane?
> Fine. Get the taxes to fund it. Democrats can't. Maybe we can put the
> insane in prison. We seem to be willing to pay for that. You've spotted the
> problems, perhaps, but what is the solution?
>
> Either you think gun violence is a problem or you don't. I think it is a
> problem. Then the matter is how to deal with it. You say the problem is bad
> parenting or insanity. Others say video games. But does that tell us how to
> deal with it? Can we keep the number and accessibility of guns the same,
> but get rid of video games, and then the problem will go away? Of course
> you don't think that. Nor did you suggest it. But what did you suggest? How
> do you think we should solve this social problem of gun violence? Or do you
> think it is not a problem?
>
> Thanks and hope you are well Matt -- and Jeff.
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 12:08 AM, Matt Decker <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>  Granted it's late, but a couple of thoughts Joe.
>
> -LAPD? Really? I have a couple of good friends on the force down there. To
> imply that the majority of the boys in blue are nothing but humble and
> unselfish is downright degrading.
>
> -Any gun in the wrong hands creates mayhem. It doesn't matter what type.
>
> -what guns? Pistols? Or the AR 15s that killed about 300 last year. 11,000
> killed last year.
>
> -When will we look at society and how we are raised instead of blaiming
> everyone else. Raise your kids proper.
>
> -Mental health
>
> -Just imagine if a pissed off ex-cop can do this, what would a battalion
> of former Marines do when they get pissed? Lack of VA support and taking
> away the rights they fought for.
>
> -How is it that no one on this site ever talked about Chris Kyle? The guy
> is a hero and yet not one  post? Whitney Houston gets half mass, but not
> Kyle?
>
> Granted Joe, not all these are addressed to you but just venting.
>
>
> That's it for now.
>
> MD
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:02:18 -0800
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Dorner and Gun Control
>
>
> I'm watching the Dorner episode unfold and reading the V2020 posts, and it
> is pretty clear no one knows what is happening at this point. Is he dead?
> Not clear now, according to CNN.
>
> Keep in mind that this one man with a few guns worked skilled, trained
> police officers into a frenzy. How many innocent victims were shot? I don't
> remember.
>
> But what I do know is that skilled, trained police officers with guns are
> a menace -- under the right unfortunate circumstances. People blame the
> cops but what would you do? How would you react to a situation in which you
> were a target? I'm guessing, not very well. Me either.
>
> And you say guns are safe? If they are in the right hands? What hands are
> those? Not the LA police.
>
> Guns are always a risk. That's why gun control is worthy of consideration.
> Even skilled, trained police officers can be a menace if the circumstances
> are unforgiving.
>
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-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
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