[Vision2020] Fwd: Fwd: Boy Scouts of America to open ranks to gay youths on Jan. 1

Sun Dec 29 18:56:19 PST 2013

Aren't we all?

On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 12:45 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>wrote:

> <Isn't irony great?>
> I wouldn't say irony is great, but I am routinely amused by those who are
> completely oblivious to the wide variety of ironic opinions that they post.
>
>
> Tom write:
> <There have been gays in the military since before Valley Forge.  I'm
> guessin' that there have been gay Boy Scouts since its inception.>
> You're probably right Tom.  So it's kind of puzzling that there was no
> issue with gays in the military and in the Boy Scouts since their
> inceptions back in the dark ages and it finally dawned on a few like
> yourself that there was something unbroken that for some reason needed
> fixing.  And now the result of the so-called fixing is going to obliterate
> the Scouts once and for all.  You really showed them who was boss.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:16:56 -0800
> From: keim153 at gmail.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Fwd: Fwd: Boy Scouts of America to open ranks to gay
> youths on Jan. 1
>
>
>
>
> Indeed.  After all, there is some evidence they were founded by a gay man.
>  http://mobile.nytimes.com/2012/07/20/opinion/scoutings-gay-founder.html
>
> Isn't irony great?
>
> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:43 AM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Yes.  It will be very interesting.
>
> Unlike bigotry, gay is NOT a choice a person makes.
>
> Another thing . . .
>
> If people think that by barring gays from the Boy Scouts, there have not
> been, nor will there be, any gays in the Boy Scouts, they are sadly
> mistaken.
>
> There have been gays in the military since before Valley Forge.  I'm
> guessin' that there have been gay Boy Scouts since its inception.
>
> Denying a person access to a public organization, based solely on a
> birth-acquired attribute, is WRONG!
>
> Last time I looked at the calendar and looked outside, I am reminded that
> this is 2013 in the American northwest, NOT the 1950s in Mississippi.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/>
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn to smile as you kill,
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
> On Dec 29, 2013, at 10:22 AM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> It will be interesting to see the impact on national membership.
>  Antecdotally, I know of severayouth that have resigned and a few units
> that folded in protest.  The local council is expecting to lose membership
> this year.  But, local membership has been shrinking for several years.
>  Latah and Whitman county membership has shrunk about 25% since I resigned
> as coordinator in 08.
>
>
> On Sunday, December 29, 2013, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
> > BSA leading the way . . .
> >
> </mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=1433eef866b1cc1c&attid=0.0.1.1&disp=emb&zw&atsh=1>
>
> > Courtesy of CBS News at:
> >
> http://www.cbsnews.com/news/boy-scouts-of-america-outlines-opens-ranks-to-gay-youths-on-jan-1/
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > Boy Scouts of America to open ranks to gay youths on Jan. 1
> >
> > The Boy Scouts of America will accept openly gay youths starting on New
> Year's Day, a historic change that has prompted the BSA to ponder a host of
> potential complications - ranging from policies on tentmates and showers to
> whether Scouts can march in gay pride parades.
> >
> > Yet despite their be-prepared approach, BSA leaders are rooting for the
> change to be a non-event, comparable to another New Year's Day in 2000 when
> widespread fears of digital-clock chaos to start the new millennium proved
> unfounded.
> >
> > "My hope is there will be the same effect this Jan. 1 as the Y2K scare,"
> said Brad Haddock, a BSA national executive board member who chairs the
> policy implementation committee. "It's business as usual, nothing happens
> and we move forward."
> >
> >  Some churches are dropping their sponsorship of Scout units because of
> the new policy and some families are switching to a new conservative
> alternative called Trail Life USA. But massive defections haven't
> materialized and most major sponsors, including the Roman Catholic and
> Mormon churches, are maintaining ties.
> >
> > "There hasn't been a whole lot of fallout," said Haddock, a lawyer from
> Wichita, Kan. "If a church said they wouldn't work with us, we'd have a
> church right down the street say, 'We'll take the troop.'"
> >
> >  The new policy was approved in May, with support from 60 percent of the
> 1,400 voting members of the BSA's National Council. The vote followed
> bitter nationwide debate, and was accompanied by an announcement that the
> BSA would continue to exclude openly gay adults from leadership positions.
> >
> > Under the new membership policy, youths can no longer be barred from the
> Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts or coed Venturers program solely on the basis of
> sexual orientation. However, gay Scouts will face some limitations.
> >
> > "Any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of
> Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting," says one BSA
> document. "No member may use Scouting to promote or advance any social or
> political position or agenda, including on the matter of sexual
> orientation."
> >
> > Trying to anticipate potential friction, the BSA has
> distributed extensive explanations and question-and-answer
> documents related to the policy.
> >
> > Some examples:
> >
> > Could a Scout march in uniform in a gay-pride parade? No, says the BSA.
> "Each youth member is free as an individual to express his or her thoughts
> or take action on political or social issues but must not use Scouting's
> official uniforms and insignia when doing so."
> > How publicly active could a gay Scout be, in terms of gay-rights
> advocacy? The BSA's reply: "While a youth member may acknowledge his or her
> sexual preference, that acknowledgment may not reach the level of
> distraction, which may include advocacy, promotion, or the distribution of
> information of a sexual nature."
> >
> > A frequently-asked-questions document anticipates that some objections
> might surface from parents - or Scouts themselves - in cases where a unit
> includes an openly gay boy.
> >
> > Regarding shower and toilet facilities, the BSA says it is encouraging
> units to provide greater individual privacy, including moving away from the
> tradition of group showers.
> >
> > "The adult leaders have the discretion to arrange private showering
> times and locations," the BSA says.
> >
> > Sleeping arrangements also are addressed, with specific decisions left
> to unit leaders.
> >
> > "If a Scout or parent of a Scout makes a request to not tent with
> another Scout, their wishes should be honored," says the BSA.
> >
> > Haddock says "isolated pockets" of problems are likely to surface, but
> overall he expects adult leaders will have the skills to defuse potential
> conflicts.
> >
> > There are about 1 million adult leaders and 2.6 million youth members in
> Scouting in the U.S. Of the roughly 110,000 Scout units, 70 percent are
> sponsored by religious organizations, including several conservative
> denominations that had long supported the BSA's exclusion of gay youth and
> gay adults.
> >
> > Among the major sponsors, the Southern Baptist Convention made clear its
> disappointment with the new youth policy, but left the decision on whether
> to cut ties up to local churches. An SBC spokesman, Sing Oldham, said it
> was not known how many churches have done so.
> >
> > The biggest sponsor of Scout units - the Utah-based Church of Jesus
> Christ of Latter-day Saints - commended the BSA for a "thoughtful,
> good-faith effort" to address a challenging issue, and said it would stay
> engaged in Scouting.
> >
> >  John Gailey of the Utah National Parks Council, the nation's largest
> council, said its youth membership had increased from 74,148 in December
> 2012 to 75,863 this month.
> >
> > Like the Mormons, the Roman Catholic Church has generally accepted the
> new policy. Many parishes will continue to sponsor Scout units, though a
> few have considered cutting ties.
> >
> > The National Catholic Committee on Scouting posted a question-and-answer
> document on its website, delving into the intersection of Scouting policy
> and Catholic teaching.
> >
> > "The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that individuals who
> disclose a same-sex attraction are to be treated with the same dignity due
> all human beings ... and also teaches that engaging in sexual activity
> outside of marriage is always immoral," says the Q-and-A, concluding that
> the new BSA policy does not contradict Catholic teaching.
> >
> > The ultimate decision on whether parishes would maintain or cut ties
> with the BSA was left to individual bishops. Several expressed cautious
> support for continuing in Scouting.
> >
> > "As the new policy currently stands, I see no reason to prohibit our
> parishes from sponsoring Boy Scout troops," said Rev. Kevin Rhoades, bishop
> of Indiana's Fort Wayne-South Bend diocese. "At the same time, it is
> critical that we be vigilant on how this new policy is interpreted and
> implemented."
> >
> > One likely target of such scrutiny will be former Defense Secretary
> Robert Gates, scheduled to take over in the spring as the BSA's next
> president. As leader of the Pentagon, Gates helped change the military's
> "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy banning openly gay soldiers, and gay-rights
> groups hope he will try to end the BSA's ban on gay adult leaders.
> >
> > The new youth policy was approved during a BSA meeting in May in the
> Dallas-Fort Worth suburb of Grapevine, near the Scouts' national
> headquarters in Irving, Texas.
> >
> > Texas has a long heritage of Scouting, with tens of thousands of youth
> members and many families claiming generations of Eagle Scouts. Among them
> is Gov. Rick Perry, who achieved Scouting's highest rank growing up in the
> small town of Paint Creek.
> >
> > The membership debate was closely followed by local Scouts on both
> sides; some carried signs and held rallies outside the meeting place. But
> in subsequent months, the debate has quieted.
> >
> > Bill Helfand, scoutmaster of Troop 55 in Houston, said membership in his
> troop has remained steady at about 225 boys.
> >
> > "We never considered sexual orientation, and I don't think many troops
> really did," Helfand said. "I don't know whether we had Scouts who are
> homosexual. I don't inquire ... It's not a matter of concern."
> >
> > Helfand said the membership debate, while closely covered in the media,
> did not extend into his meetings with leaders and parents, besides
> occasional discussion of the policy at camp-outs. He says he hasn't talked
> to any Scout about his sexual orientation and doesn't intend to.
> >
> > "I know that this is something that people felt was a momentous turning
> point for Scouting," Helfand said. "Everybody I know has made Scouting
> available to every boy who wants it, and that's what we continue to do."
> >
> > However, some Texas parents and leaders have decided to switch to Trail
> Life USA, an alternative which declares itself "a Christian adventure,
> character, and leadership program for young men." Among them is Ron Orr, a
> business consultant from the Fort Worth area who is signing up local units
> for the group.
> >
> > So far, he said he has 25 groups "pre-chartered" for a Jan. 1 launch
> date in the territory covered by the BSA's Circle Ten and Longhorn
> councils. That's modest compared to the 39,000 Scouts served by the Circle
> Ten council alone.
> >
> > Orr is part of a family with four generations of Eagle Scouts. His older
> son recently earned his Eagle rank and his younger son was on the verge of
> doing likewise. But Orr said he could not stand by after the policy change.
> >
> > "As Christians, from a scriptural basis, we love all folks, but the
> scripture is very clear that being homosexual is a sin," Orr said. "We've
> got to be able to hold a strong line and set a consistent example for our
> young men."
> >
> > Orr said his decision to cut ties with the BSA rested in part on the
> Scout Oath, which includes the admonition to remain "morally straight."
> >
> > Scott Scarborough of Lubbock, Texas, is helping Orr recruit Trail Life
> members in the Texas Panhandle, a mostly rural, conservative region.
> Scarborough said he offered to let his 14-year-old son stay in Boy Scouts
> and achieve his Eagle rank, but the boy elected to join him in Trail Life.
> >
> > Orr and Scarborough said they didn't consider themselves rivals to the
> Boy Scouts, though they've chosen a different path.
> >
> > "Our tradition comes out of Boy Scouts," Scarborough said. "We'll never
> not honor that heritage."
> >
> > --------------------
> >
> > Boy Scouts are shown lining up before marching in the Utah Gay Pride
> Parade Sunday, June 2, 2013, in Salt Lake City. Members of Scouts for
> Equality marched in the parade following last week's vote by Boy Scouts of
> America to allow openly gay youth to participate in scouting.
> >
> > <
> https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/GV3iLR_58ARnas5WEZS-mTXwOBm74sjt0Cx6cuZqJLnlkISH3IwQPQBFuPit0n_B97-ZTD_Sa5jbXU3QBHdS83mZcDIrPUINAuUXNnIax0udr3pGLMYffgXOX5NWF75espqsL6eYmkpD3mlHVzUkWuBN3yXjgmSwmgm6t-f_xaAgPwAdg_-Pat-RerOvgdPAeXi4R6Dnh8wlqIsn50mQ8AzL3_8WCYc67ra2UsAhFtzaTB9jceMLYFkM-pOA3mmV09Vg=s0-d-e1-ft#http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2013/06/12/08d6122b-1c52-11e3-9918-005056850598/thumbnail/620x350/boy-scouts-AP583171551888.jpg?hash=278638e2e835bca19217d48d01f7faf2
> >
>
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> > Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> > "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> > But first you must learn to smile as you kill,
> > If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> > - John Lennon
>
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