[Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

Scott Dredge scooterd408 at hotmail.com
Sun Aug 25 14:53:46 PDT 2013


Based on photographic evidence, audio evidence, the measurable timeline, GZ's medical report, TM's autopsy report combined with corroborating witness testimony, it's difficult to draw any conclusion other than TM being on top of GZ and hitting him for at least 45 seconds prior to the fatal and only shot.  GZ shouldn't have followed TM and should have stayed in his truck.  TM shouldn't have attacked him.  But TM did what he did and GZ did what he did, so here we are.

This whole thing has already spun as a 'perfect storm'.  And if GZ is going to do things like tour a Kel Tec factory, pose for photo ops, and let it be known he's interested in acquiring more fire power, he's putting himself, his family, and anyone around him in danger.  His actions are tantamount to 'bring it on' taunting.  Don't be surprised if someone takes the bait resulting in more tragedy.  Don't be surprised if GZ blasts someone innocent that he mistakenly believes was coming after him.  Don't be surprised when there is another dead body and GZ claims 'self defense'.

From: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
To: godshatter at yahoo.com; philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 13:11:03 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory




He wasn't 'going out to call the police on criminal activity.' He could have called them from his home and stayed there. Why do you even saying that? 

He was out and about because he wanted to play the cop, and he had a gun. He could have stayed home with his gun, like he was told to do. 

You keep assuming his defense theory is true. It was effective, it led to the verdict, but that doesn't make it true.

Sunil

Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2013 11:55:13 -0700
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory

Do you think that neighborhood watch programs are a bad thing?  If you can posit for a moment that guns can come in handy for self-defense, then going out to call the police on criminal activity might be a time when you have a better chance of needing to protect yourself than when you are, say, just going to get groceries.

If you think it wasn't self-defense, then why was Zimmerman doing his best to lead the cops to the encounter?  Why were there no injuries on Martin consistent with an initial attack by Zimmerman?  Do you think he shot him first?  Then why did witnesses see them on the ground fighting?  To me, it just
 doesn't add up.
Paul

        From: Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com>
 To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
 
 Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:26 AM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours gun factory
   
"... he thought he was going to die and defended himself." First, the only evidence you have for this is that Zimmerman said it was so. There were no witnesses to corroborate this. We don't know what happened. My interpretation of the results of the trial is that there was no reason to disbelieve Zimmerman, so no reason to find him guilty. That does not mean that we should believe him. There is no reason to believe him either. The fact is we don't know what happened in those moments prior to the shooting.


Second, Zimmerman was out looking for "criminals" like some want-a-be cop, stalked a suspected criminal who turned out to be a boy, called to report it and was advised to stop but didn't do so, got out of his car to follow the "suspect," then (supposedly) shot the boy because he feared for his life. 


I'm sorry but if you are not a cop and you leave your house with a gun pretending to "protect" your neighborhood, my sympathy level will drop dramatically should something go wrong. 

Zimmerman's actions do not sound like self-defense to me. I am not warped by the mainstream media. In fact, I think this is just another example of how fear and guns together are more likely to lead to a bad outcome than a good one. Incidents like this are precisely why we need gun control. Some people are just not smart enough to know how to use guns with the required safety and care. The Zimmerman case proves that. 


And saying that folks are dupes just because they happen to share some of the views of the mainstream media is no different from saying that you are a racist just because you happen to share some of the views of racists.



On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:


  
    
  
  
    

      I'm not supporting Zimmerman.  I'm just dismayed by the attitudes
      people have towards him based on nothing but wishful thinking, as
      far as I can see.  These attitudes are shared across the country,
      and is making life for this man dangerous.  All because he thought
      he was going to die and defended himself. His bad luck that he did
      so at a time when guns are the new boogieman, and that his
      attacker didn't have the common sense to be a white male.

      

      It's really how quickly and absolutely this narrative I keep
      talking about solidified that scares the ever-living crap out of
      me.  It means the main stream media is still king, and that your
      average American still just soaks it right up apparently
      uncritically.

      

      Oh, and I don't plan to shut up, thank you anyway.

      

      Paul

      

      On 08/25/2013 08:39 AM, Joe Campbell wrote:

    
    
      Of course I don't condone the bounty, or death
        threats. It is still a mystery to me why you keep condoning
        Zimmerman. If you want folks to stop talking about him, why
        don't you start us off? Really, I only post on that guy when you
        or others try to defend him, or act shocked about the public
        outrage. Otherwise, I don't really think about him much.

      
      

        

        On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 8:30 AM, Paul
          Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
          wrote:

          
            
              

                You're right.  He should look properly chastened at all
                times so as not to offend people like yourself.  I bet
                he was laughing at a joke!  The bastard.

                

                I will admit that if he was thinking in terms of PR,
                then staging a photoshoot at a gun store was not the
                brightest move.  I suspect, though, that he can't move
                three feet in public without some self-righteous a-hole
                tracking his every move and taking his picture.  It
                won't last long, though.  They'll get him in civil court
                soon where the threshold for evidence is not so high.

                

                While we're on the subject, does anyone out there in
                viz-land condone the bounty put on him by the New Black
                Panther Party?  Does anyone condemn it?  How about the
                multiple death threats he and his family have been
                getting?  I normally wouldn't ask this, but the
                reactions here to this case have so disappointed me that
                I just have to.

                    

                    Paul
                

                  

                  On 08/24/2013 10:16 PM, Scott Dredge wrote:

                
              
              
                
                  I think it's STUPID of Zimmerman to be
                    cheesing it up for photos while touring a gun
                    factory.  I was seeing shades that idiot president
                    of CA fish and game who bagged a mountain lion in
                    Idaho and went on the cover of some magazine beaming
                    while holding the dead carcass.

                    

                    FWIW - I disagree that Zimmerman was hunting Martin,
                    but nonetheless he did fatally shoot him and this
                    type of behavior is quite the opposite of being
                    remorseful.  But hey, if he wants to stay around
                    Florida and make himself visible while there's a
                    bounty on his head, that's certainly his choice and
                    likely another bad choice in a growing list.

                    

                  
                  
                    
                      CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

                      From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com

                      Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Zimmy beams as he tours
                      gun factory

                      Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2013 18:30:05 -0700

                      To: godshatter at yahoo.com

                      

                    
                    
                      
                        I said it was closer to hunting than self
                          defense. It was. And Martin was a kid;
                          Zimmerman was not. And Martin is dead. Maybe
                          that is why no one is blaming him. 
                        

                        
                        Did Martin make a mistake? Apparently --
                          but really we don't know that any more than we
                          know why Zimmerman did what he did. But Martin
                          paid a hefty price for his mistake. Zimmerman
                          did not. That's why folks are upset.
                        

                          On Aug 24, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Paul Rumelhart
                          <godshatter at yahoo.com>
                          wrote:

                          

                        
                        
                          
                            

                              That's the narrative I'm talking about. 
                              It completely ignores Trayvon Martin's own
                              actions that helped lead to his death and
                              it exaggerates George Zimmerman's
                              actions.  Following someone down a
                              sidewalk is not the same as "hunting" a
                              person.  We have exactly zero evidence
                              that Zimmerman followed Martin in order to
                              kill him.  

                              

                              But have fun with the narrative.  If you
                              happen across Zimmerman, get in a few
                              licks for the rest of us.

                              

                              Paul 

                              

                              On 08/24/2013 05:44 PM, Joe Campbell
                              wrote:

                            
                            
                              Goes against the narrative? The guy
                                stalked a kid, against the advice of a
                                911 operator, and ended up killing him. 
                              

                              
                              Honestly, I just don't get it.
                                Stalking and shooting is a lot closer to
                                hunting than self-defense. Why is that
                                so difficult for you to see?
                              

                                On Aug 24, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Paul
                                Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>


                                wrote:

                                

                              
                              
                                
                                  

                                    Well, he and his family do get death
                                    threats regularly: http://globalgrind.com/2013/08/03/robert-zimmerman-reveals-family-400-death-threats-per-minute-starbucks-employee-george-trayvon-martin-details/


                                    

                                    And there is a $10,000 bounty put on
                                    Zimmerman for his capture by the New
                                    Black Panther Party: http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/07/19/Black-Panthers-2012-video-for-Zimmerman-bounty-resurfaces/3711374236844/


                                    

                                    So maybe he is in need of a good
                                    home-defense weapon.

                                    

                                    Of course, progressives are not
                                    allowed to feel bad about that
                                    because it goes against the
                                    narrative.  Pity, one could almost
                                    feel bad for a guy who is reviled on
                                    the national stage for protecting
                                    himself from getting his ass beat,
                                    whether or not it was his own
                                    stupidity that got him there.  

                                    

                                    Oh, well.  It's much easier to think
                                    of him as a monster.  

                                    

                                    Paul

                                    

                                    On 08/24/2013 03:29 PM, Scott Dredge
                                    wrote:

                                  
                                  
                                    http://www.mediaite.com/online/george-zimmerman-went-gun-shopping-today/


                                      

                                      

                                      

                                      

                                    
                                    

                                    
                                    

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