[Vision2020] Another perspective on free speech

Thu Sep 27 14:44:49 PDT 2012

Removed?  Say it ain't so.  So much for the often ballyhooed and yet poorly understood 'freedom of speech'...

I think it's safe to finally say at this point:  'Nuff said'.

From: moscowcares at moscow.com
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 13:53:22 -0700
To: thansen at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another perspective on free speech

The video trailer for "Innocence of Muslims" has been removed and is no longer available online.
However, I did download it just before I posted the link.  Maybe later I will make copies available off-list and off-line . . . or maybe I'll stash it in my digital archives . . . to be uncovered and reviewed years from now.

Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares"http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007) 
On Sep 27, 2012, at 1:44 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

>From my posting two weeks ago 
"Innocence of Muslims"http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2012-September/085732.html
Seeya at the polls, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares"http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.  The college students are not very active in local elections (thank goodness!)."
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007) 
On Sep 27, 2012, at 1:28 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Did the trailer for "The Innocence of Muslims" that was posted to YouTube actually incite hatred against racial or religious groups, or did it just express hatred towards racial or religious groups?  There is a difference.  I ask because I haven't seen this YouTube video.

Paul

        From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
 To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com; art.deco.studios at gmail.com 
Cc: viz
 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 12:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another perspective on free speech

What particular section of the article are you not in agreement with?  It seems to me that the main tenet is this paragraph:

'Americans seem curiously unaware that, in many countries, thoughtful, 
modern, secular-minded people don't reject free speech -- they reject 
the claim that it protects The Innocence of Muslims. Under the 
most advanced legal norms in their countries, free speech doesn't 
include the right to incite hatred against racial or religious groups.'

Seems like just a statement of fact to me that Americans seem curiously unaware about how so-called 'free speech' is thought of in many countries (let alone our own).

-Scott

From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:00:32 -0700
To: art.deco.studios at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Another perspective on free speech

I agree with this entirely. Joe

On Sep 27, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:

I do not agree with this perspective of restricting free speech.

Religious dogma and some of the actions they engender
 including torture, war, forced conversion, restriction of freedoms and rights, cliterectomy, etc are extremely harmful to humankind.  Restricting free expression and the use of various rhetorical devices only serves to protect and promulgate these harmful beliefs and actions

In the search for truth and humane values, why should religious beliefs be exempted from analysis, investigation, the the uses of rhetorical devices used to examine and discuss all other kinds of belief?

It is important to note that unlike many other everyday beliefs like gravity there is no agreement on any religious truth out of the multitude of those offered to or forced upon humankind.  Worse yet, there is as of now unlike gravity, measles, etc, no agreed upon method to cull the true from the false and meaningless.

It offended many when Galileo asserted that the earth revolved around the sun, not the converse.  Let the search for truth be open, and if humor, insults, derision, etc can help in that search, so be it.

The same sort of statements above can be made about political dogma also.

w.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 1:23 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/09/free-speech-and-the-1st-amendment-arent-always-the-same-thing/262894/ 
 Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA
=======================================================

 List services made available by First Step Internet,

 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

               http://www.fsr.net

          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

=======================================================

-- 
Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= 		 	   		  

=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

    =======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
==============================================================================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet,
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
               http://www.fsr.net
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20120927/cbca3803/attachment.html>