[Vision2020] Fw: Second Amendment Remedy

Sun Sep 9 04:46:11 PDT 2012

Scott,

It might make sense to you but only because you are not a truck driver being mugged, robbed, assaulted or having someone outside your truck trying to get in. I think that if a company is going to put its employees in dangerous places they either need to be 100% liable for their safety, or allow them the chance of self protection. Putting them directly in harms way and then saying, "If you have any weapon of any kind you will be terminated" is bogus and negligent of employees safety and well-being, and knowingly doing it but not caring about their driver. Some truck drivers can be required to wait days and days in extremely dangerous areas waiting for another load to take. 

A commercial driver keeping a weapon in a locked box in his personal belongings in his sleeper cab where he lives is in no way damaging to a trucking company. Would you stop buying products from a trucking company because some people that work for it might own a gun? Do you know of any other companies that would also be irreparably damaged by some employees owning a weapon for self defense? In simply terms, the trucking companies are more concerned about a lawsuit against them then the life of their driver. 

Truck drivers are also not working all the time. They are only allowed to work 14 hours a day and less than 70 hrs a week. The rest of the time they off the clock and on their own where ever their last load drop was. And if you think a truck driver is free to drive anywhere they want, you are wrong, where you go and where get gas is 100% under company control too. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com; rforce2003 at yahoo.com; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Sunday, September 9, 2012 1:17 AM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Second Amendment Remedy

Well come on Donovan, be realistic.  I have a constitutional right of free speech that protects me from the government censoring me, but it doesn't protect me from being disciplined or even fired from my job at a private employer for saying things that are damaging to my company's business.  A truck driver might think he / she has a constitutional right to carry a gun despite the policy of his company, but he / she probably does not have any legal protections from being terminated for violating a company policy of 'no guns allowed while on the job'.  I'm not a lawyer, but this seems pretty straight forward to me.-Scott 
Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2012 23:49:51 -0700From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.comTo: rforce2003 at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Second Amendment Remedy 
I know this, Ron. But try driving a truck across country without violating a gun law. And trucking companies should not be allowed to deny someone their constitutional rights. The problem is, the Federal Government will not write a federal law that prevents state and local government from doing this. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Saturday, September 8, 2012 7:50 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Second Amendment Remedy

I should have done this to begin with: check the statement that truck drivers can't carry guns. Some quick Googling reveals there is no Federal law or regulation that prohibits it. There may be local or state laws one could run afoul of, but the real reason drivers can't go armed is that private companies won't allow it. They don't want to assume the liability and their insurance companies won't cover it. 
From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 
To: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>; 'Moscow Vision2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>; 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy 
Sent: Thu, Sep 6, 2012 11:53:01 AM 

Saundra,

Your claim then is that a commercial driver in his own home should not be allowed to defend himself from people that beat him or shoot him and take his, wallet, personal property or truck and only means of survival, and that he doesn't have the same constitutional rights as you do simply because he is a truck driver? Truck drivers have no interest in defending company cargo, they have an interest in protecting themselves. 

Truck drivers are not permanently attached to the truck, they get out, walk around go to the store, movies, post office and other errands, they have no choice in which places they must go and are just as easily harmed as anyone else walking around downtown LA getting a pack of smokes at the corner of Crack Alley and Heroin St. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: 'Donovan Arnold' <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; 'Moscow Vision2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 10:24 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy

Sorry, Donovan, I pretty vehemently disagree that it’s appropriate to use deadly force to defend mere property.  I also disagree with the idea that it’s OK to take a gun to a fist fight.  That misguided idea is what’s killing our youth.

Saundra

From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2012 9:56 PM
To: Wayne Price; Ron Force
Cc: Moscow Vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy

It isn't a matter of if someone is or isn't better off armed or not. It is a matter of human rights. Do you, and do all humans have the right to defend themselves from loss of life, limb and property and of those in their guardianship? I think so. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From:Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy

Ron,

And do you want to bet that Reginald Denny wished he was armed or was he better off unarmed? 

From TIME: 

"Taking a shortcut off the Santa Monica Freeway down Normandie Avenue was nothing out of the ordinary for 33-year-old Reginald Denny. In the late afternoon of April 29, 1992, he had simply loaded up his 18-wheeler and headed down the road, driving for his employer Transit Mixed Concrete. Little did he know that he would drive smack into the middle of an angry mob looking for vengeance. 
As his rig crossed Florence, a group of rioters enraged over the Rodney King verdict rushed toward him, pulled him out of the cab and beat him to within an inch of his life. The attack ended when Damian Monroe Williams took a cinderblock and bashed Denny's skull, fracturing it in 91 places and causing severe brain damage."

Wayne

On Sep 5, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Ron Force wrote:

Hmmmm, lets see... whats more likely to get you killed? Driving into a high crime area unarmed, or pulling out your six-shooter and playing Marshall Dillon with the bad guys. "Yes sir, this here cargo's so valuable, I'd give up my life for it." 

Stuff can be replaced (and it's probably insured). Lives can't.

Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA
From:Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>; Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy

Easy access to guns and limited access to mental health services don't mix. 

One complaint about gun laws right now is that commercial truck drivers, who live in their trucks, are banned from legally carrying any weapons for self defense. Many are also required for their job to drive into dangerous high crime areas with valuable cargo. 

Donovan J. Arnold

From:Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
To: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Wednesday, September 5, 2012 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Second Amendment Remedy

From Knute Berger:

...Unfortunately, many pro-gun legislators in Oly are also pushing more and more to cut government funding. The result is an increasingly armed populace and fewer resources to identify and treat people who are mentally ill and potentially violent. Ian Stawicki, who shot down his fellow Café Racer regulars and the mom at Town Hall, was known to be mentally unbalanced by his family and friends, and he had a domestic violence record. Yet he was well armed and untreated.

A democracy needs an educated citizenry. An uninformed society, James Madison said, leads to “farce or a tragedy.” But a heavily armed democracy must also have a commitment to sanity and humanity. It does little good to say the mentally ill can’t own firearms if you can’t identify who they are, if you can’t disarm them and if you don’t have the resources to treat them.

Failing to follow through with sane policy also contributes to tragedy, as we’re learning the hard way. 

http://crosscut.com/2012/09/05/mossback/110281/seattle-shooting-ian-stawicki-gun-control/ 

Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
         mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================

=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
              http://www.fsr.net/
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
======================================================= ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.               http://www.fsr.net/           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ======================================================= ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.               http://www.fsr.net/           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com ============================================================================================================== List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20120909/714cc7a7/attachment-0001.html>