[Vision2020] FW: Party of Strivers

Sat Sep 1 15:00:16 PDT 2012

Joe,

I understand a lot of people say that as they continue to support Obama, and this is ultimately their position:

'I don't care about atrocities he commits outside our borders, as long as I can support his policies within our borders.' 

I can't go along with that any more. I'm not pretending Romney will be any better on foreign policy, but he can't get much worse.

Sunil

> Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2012 14:52:54 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] FW: Party of Strivers
> From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
> It is a tough decision. I agree with you that Obama was no better in
> many respects than Bush, not wrt military involvement at least. But I
> fear that if a Republican gets elected there will be a rollback of
> abortion rights and other rights. Joe
> 
> On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Sunil Ramalingam
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > 'Party loyalty is blind...and deaf and dumb...and cruel.'
> >
> > I'm about half way through this interview of Jonathan Turley by John Cusack,
> > looking at Obama's repugnant foreign policy:
> >
> > http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/11264-john-cusack-and-jonathan-turley-on-obamas-constitution
> >
> > A s long as we support the people implementing these policies, they will go
> > on. I'm not voting for Obama again, because of this.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >> From: betsyd at turbonet.com
> >> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 10:57:13 -0700
> >> Subject: [Vision2020] FW: Party of Strivers
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Betsy Dickow [mailto:betsyd at turbonet.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:57 AM
> >> To: 'Joe Campbell'
> >> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Party of Strivers
> >>
> >> And most of the poor will be poor through not fault of their own...how
> >> many
> >> people are working hard and often overtime at the University of Idaho and
> >> not making ends meet...many many many. And here it's no different from the
> >> Wall Street corporate model...administrators win big and everyone else is
> >> a
> >> peon, working for peanuts.
> >> This is democracy? No, this is the will of a few billionaires and the
> >> Republican Party...Get your head out of the sand and stop thinking in
> >> terms
> >> of party loyalty.
> >> Party loyalty is blind...and deaf and dumb...and cruel.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Joe Campbell
> >> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 10:46 AM
> >> To: lfalen
> >> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Party of Strivers
> >>
> >> How is Ayn Rand's philosophy basically correct? Do you think the poor are
> >> lazy? Do you disagree that some people have a bad lot and without some
> >> kind
> >> of outside assistance, they are unlikely to realize the American dream? If
> >> so, then Rand is just plain wrong. Tweaking her view to allow for
> >> compassion
> >> is in this case equivalent to rejecting her view. That is what separates
> >> Rand's philosophy from the kind of view that Brooks is suggesting. Brooks'
> >> offers a much better, more realistic take on humanity, as I see it. Joe
> >>
> >> On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 10:18 AM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:
> >> > I am not a big fan of David Brooks, but this is not a bad article. I
> >> > like
> >> Rice also. I have some problems with Ayn Rand. Her philosophy is basicly
> >> correct, but it need s to be tempered by some compassion, which she seems
> >> to
> >> lack.
> >> > Roger
> >> > -----Original message-----
> >> > From: Art Deco art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> >> > Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2012 03:51:28 -0700
> >> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >> > Subject: [Vision2020] Party of Strivers
> >> >
> >> >> [image: The New York Times] <http://www.nytimes.com/>
> >> >>
> >> >> <http://www.nytimes.com/adx/bin/adx_click.html?type=goto&opzn&page=ww
> >> >> w.nytimes.com/printer-friendly&pos=Position1&sn2=336c557e/4f3dd5d2&sn
> >> >> 1=34aeaaa2/80e4ddbc&camp=FSL2012_ArticleTools_120x60_1787508c_nyt5&ad
> >> >> =BOSW_120x60_June13_NoText&goto=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efoxsearchlight%2Ec
> >> >> om%2Fbeastsofthesouthernwild>
> >> >>
> >> >> ------------------------------
> >> >> August 30, 2012
> >> >> Party of Strivers By DAVID
> >> >> BROOKS<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/opinion/editorialsandoped/oped/c
> >> >> olumnists/davidbrooks/index.html>
> >> >>
> >> >> America was built by materialistic and sometimes superficial
> >> >> strivers. It was built by pioneers who voluntarily subjected
> >> >> themselves to stone-age conditions on the frontier fired by dreams of
> >> >> riches. It was built by immigrants who crammed themselves into
> >> >> hellish tenements because they thought it would lead, for their
> >> >> children, to big houses, big cars and big lives.
> >> >>
> >> >> America has always been defined by this ferocious commercial energy,
> >> >> this zealotry for self-transformation, which leads its citizens to
> >> >> vacation less, work longer, consume more and invent more.
> >> >>
> >> >> Many Americans, and many foreign observers, are ambivalent about or
> >> >> offended by this driving material ambition. Read "The Great Gatsby."
> >> >> Read D.H. Lawrence on Benjamin Franklin.
> >> >>
> >> >> But today's Republican Party unabashedly celebrates this ambition and
> >> >> definition of success. Speaker after speaker at the convention in
> >> >> Tampa, Fla., celebrated the striver, who started small, struggled
> >> >> hard, looked within and became wealthy. Speaker after speaker argued
> >> >> that this ideal of success is under assault by Democrats who look
> >> >> down on strivers, who undermine self-reliance with government
> >> >> dependency, who smother ambition under regulations.
> >> >>
> >> >> Republicans promised to get government out of the way. Reduce the
> >> >> burden of debt. Offer Americans an open field and a fair chance to
> >> >> let their ambition run.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you believe, as I do, that American institutions are hitting a
> >> >> creaky middle age, then you have a lot of time for this argument. If
> >> >> you believe that there has been a hardening of the national arteries
> >> >> caused by a labyrinthine tax code, an unsustainable Medicare program
> >> >> and a suicidal addiction to deficits, then you appreciate this
> >> >> streamlining agenda, even if you don't buy into the whole Ayn
> >> Rand-influenced gospel of wealth.
> >> >>
> >> >> On the one hand, you see the Republicans taking the initiative,
> >> >> offering rejuvenating reform. On the other hand, you see an exhausted
> >> >> Democratic Party, which says: We don't have an agenda, but we really
> >> >> don't like theirs. Given these options, the choice is pretty clear.
> >> >>
> >> >> But there is a flaw in the vision the Republicans offered in Tampa.
> >> >> It is contained in its rampant hyperindividualism. Speaker after
> >> >> speaker celebrated the solitary and heroic individual. There was
> >> >> almost no talk of community and compassionate conservatism. There was
> >> >> certainly no conservatism as Edmund Burke understood it, in which
> >> >> individuals are embedded in webs of customs, traditions, habits and
> >> governing institutions.
> >> >>
> >> >> Today's Republicans strongly believe that individuals determine their
> >> >> own fates. In a Pew Research Center
> >> >> poll<http://www.people-press.org/2012/06/04/partisan-polarization-sur
> >> >> ges-in-bush-obama-years/>, for example, 57 percent of Republicans
> >> >> believe people are poor because they don't work hard. Only 28 percent
> >> >> believe people are poor because of circumstances beyond their
> >> >> control. These Republicans believe that if only government gets out
> >> >> of the way, then people's innate qualities will enable them to
> >> >> flourish.
> >> >>
> >> >> But there's a problem. I see what the G.O.P. is offering the
> >> >> engineering major from Purdue or the business major from Arizona
> >> >> State. The party is offering skilled people the freedom to run their
> >> >> race. I don't see what the party is offering the waitress with two
> >> >> kids, or the warehouse worker whose wages have stagnated for a
> >> >> decade, or the factory worker whose skills are now obsolete.
> >> >>
> >> >> The fact is our destinies are shaped by social forces much more than
> >> >> the current G.O.P. is willing to admit. The skills that enable people
> >> >> to flourish are not innate but constructed by circumstances.
> >> >>
> >> >> Government does not always undermine initiative. Some government
> >> >> programs, like the G.I. Bill, inflame ambition. Others depress it.
> >> >> What matters is not whether a program is public or private but its
> >> >> effect
> >> on character.
> >> >> Today's Republicans, who see every government program as a step on
> >> >> the road to serfdom, are often blind to that. They celebrate the race
> >> >> to success but don't know how to give everyone access to that race.
> >> >>
> >> >> The wisest speech departed from the prevailing story line. It was
> >> >> delivered by Condoleezza Rice. It echoed an older, less libertarian
> >> >> conservatism, which harkens back to Washington, Tocqueville and
> >> >> Lincoln. The powerful words in her speech were not "I" and "me" - the
> >> >> heroic individual They were "we" and "us" - citizens who emerge out
> >> >> of and exist as participants in a great national project.
> >> >>
> >> >> Rice celebrated material striving but also larger national goals -
> >> >> the long national struggle to extend benefits and mobilize all human
> >> >> potential. She subtly emphasized how our individual destinies are
> >> >> dependent upon the social fabric and upon public institutions like
> >> >> schools, just laws and our mission in the world. She put less
> >> >> emphasis on commerce and more on citizenship.
> >> >>
> >> >> Today's Republican Party may be able to perform useful tasks with its
> >> >> current hyperindividualistic mentality. But its commercial soul is
> >> >> too narrow. It won't be a worthy governing party until it treads the
> >> >> course Lincoln trod: starting with individual ambition but ascending
> >> >> to a larger vision and creating a national environment that arouses
> >> >> ambition and nurtures success.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> >> >> art.deco.studios at gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
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